Warning: This is going to be a long one, but I’m at a loss . I have an 11 month old Lab boy, Alfie (turning 1 on the third of November!) who is acting up. Or should I say, has always acted up, but has gotten progressively worse. Don’t get me wrong, I love him dearly. But his behavior has gotten to the point where it scares me – I can’t even walk him anymore! Keep in mind, he has been enrolled in puppy classes, and was even considered ‘top student’ He is also neutered. Here’s the story. He came to us at 2 months old exactly. The first few months were great, which leads me to believe that is adolescence talking. It started with the walks. He was around 4 months old, and seemed to just go insane! I was holding his leash, and he began biting at my legs out of the blue. I had done a lot of research beforehand and knew that this was typical puppy behavior. So I became ‘a tree’ and stood completely still. That seemed to aggravate little Alfie further and he jumped UP on my then, biting my arms HARD. I literally couldn’t get him to stop. Thankfully, I was close to my house, and someone at home heard me yelping and came to my aid. I tried it again the next day, with some treats. He grabbed the entire treat pouch off my waist, and I got so scared he would eat all and get sick that I pulled it away from him, which set him off again. This happened too many times to count and as he became stronger, and began to bruise my arms and break skin, I gave up walking, and now only my dad can manage. He has also recently developed a habit of jumping and biting while we play fetch with him. That’s the frustrating part. We know we need to exercise him in order for him to have less energy, but we CAN’T! He’s also gotten into this terrible habit of biting our couches and he will not listen at all! So we resort to clipping a leash on him and leading him out. The problem is, he gets so upset when we pull him away from the couch or whatever he is chewing that he snarls and bites US instead. At this point I don’t know what to do. I really don’t know if he’s aggressive or just being a ‘teen.’ He’s turning 1 soon, and his bites are no longer considered nips. They really hurt, and I’m almost afraid of this sweet baby sometimes. Please offer some suggestions, thanks! P.S He is not always like this, he can be such a sweet, loving baby a lot of the times as well.
Hi Reva Welcome to the forum. Quite a number of issues going on here. I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I think you need a dog trainer to come in and assist you. Can you tell us what part of the world you reside in? ( if USA the city and state). We'll attempt to put you in contact with a good training organisation, which will be able to assist you.
Thanks for the reply! I'm actually working with a trainer at the moment, the whole family is involved The problem is, nothing quite seems to be changing – the little guy bites our trainer badly as well! We are located in the Philippines at the moment, though we move around quite a bit. A lot of people seem to think that we have missed the training point and it is too late I disagree with this t hough, because Labs are known for being intelligent, and with the amount of will that Alfie has, I know he can truly do it.
Okay @Reva. Yes you can teach an old dog new tricks. It just takes a little longer. But your dog is young. Have you had a vet check your dog for any physiological factors that might explain his behaviour? Can you please tell us what you are currently doing in terms of training? What do you do now when your dog bites? Will he sit stay? Do you have him on a house line? Do you use food treats to reinforce good behaviour? A tug toy? Is he crate trained? Has he been trained to accept a muzzle? You need to tell as much as you can? How long have you been working with the current trainer? What does the trainer do when the dog bites?
We visit our vet regularly, and there's nothing wrong with him physiologically... In terms of training, we did puppy classes – the basics, sit, down, stay, come, leave it, etc. He is actually very good with these commands most of the time. It's only when he gets in his frenzied state that he will not listen to anything – sometimes with treats, other times, not even that. When Alfie begins to bite, I usually try to not touch him or physically remove him; I tell him to go down, or turn my back to him. Most of the time he will not listen, and now that he's a lot bigger, he turns to biting my stomach hard, so I have to grab him by the collar and put him into a sit, in which he will begin growling and biting my arms, instead of my stomach. In all honestly, I can't do anything when he bites, I usually just call for someone to grab a leash ASAP and help me with him. Yes, he will sit and stay and leave it when he's in his normal behavior. He's a very playful pup. We have tried a house-line actually. Basically we had him on a leash when he was inside, so as to monitor his behavior, and so we could keep an eye on him at all time. This did end up aggravating him further, and the jumping/biting became worse. So now, we have no house-line, but we just watch him 24/7, when he's inside. I like to stick to positive reinforcement, using treats and affection as reward. The tug toys, make him crazy, he cannot accept that playtime is over, and ends up biting again. He is not crate trained, although he has a crate, and he used to sleep in it – we stopped once he was potty trained and didn't have anymore accidents. We actually haven't tried a muzzle, because the thought of putting him in a muzzle upsets all of us. We don't want him to be muzzled, although I'm thinking about it now. We've had our current trainer for about 2 months. She comes to our house every week and works with Alfie. When Alfie bites, she presses a 'pressure point' on his neck, to make him stop, though she claims to be a positive reinforcement trainer, In all honesty, I'm not sure if I agree with what the trainer does when Alfie bites, it seems cruel to me, but I don't know what else to do... I haven't tried pressing on his neck or using force, because like I mentioned earlier, Alfie means the world to me, and I can't fathom hurting him, or scaring him even. Though I'm his 'playmate' he's probably the closest to me – sleeps in my bed, sits with me while I'm studying, etc. Do you think that this exceeds puppy/adolescent biting?
Okay @Reva thanks for the detailed responses. It's very clear. And Im sure we are all getting a better picture of your plight Three more primary questions Can you explain what are the circumstances that precipitate the biting? Is he tired? Over-stimulated? What are the triggers? What does he do while you are at school? Is he occupied mentally and physically during the day? What is he fed? Kibble? I am about to go to bed so will not reply for quite some hours. Others feel free to join in.
Firstly, thank you so much for your responses! So, my belief is, that he's overstimulated. However, it can be very out of the blue as well. For example, I can be giving him a belly rub, and playing with him on the floor, when he'll suddenly bark, spin around, get the zoomies, and pounce on me. While I'm at school, he gets free run outside, with toys, and a Kong if he behaves badly, to settle him down. Inside the house, he gets Nyla bones to chew on, and a few toys he IS allowed to destroy. When I come home, he greets me enthusiastically – not biting, keep in mind, and sits with my while I study. During my breaks, I teach him fun tricks and games, right now, he is being taught to ring a bell. He's a very smart boy, and learns quickly. He knows how to do all the basics, and even some fun tricks, such as spin, high-five, shake, and kiss. He is fed Origen Puppy Large. We used to feed him Royal Canine Labrador Puppy, but my aunt who runs an animal shelter of sorts and works closely with all animals, including dogs, said that he might be better off on a grain-free diet. We saw the vet yesterday for hotspots on his back, and he said Alfie was putting on weight This is purely due to not being able to exercise him, because of the biting unfortunately.
My dog is has similar issues. He's 17months old now and hugely improved but still hasn't entirely got the message that it's not ok to bite us. I don't have much advice for you I'm afraid, but I'm interested to know how you get on.
One thing I think you should do is start muzzle training. My dog thinks a muzzle is a sort of treat dispenser. I don't leave it on him for long as I'd like to keep his feelings towards it positive, but I think it could be useful/essential if he was ever injured or his behaviour fails to improve.
Our puppy does the same to me! She is wild and we were told to "time her out" in her crate when she nips and bites. I get attacked the most....because I am the one she plays with the most....
I would find another trainer. One would have expected some progress in two months. You have doubts about her. I think you are absolutely correct. I have never heard of using pressure points to deal with a dog that bites. Good. You mention that the Vet believes he is now overweight. You will need to reduce the portions allocated to the dog. For at least one of his meals you are going to put all of it it in your treat bag. The regime will be NILIF nothing in life is free. If he does as he is cued then give him a treat. So cue him for down stays and sit stays. go to mat. I have chosen exercises that do not involve a lot of drive. We want the dog to be not too aroused. I would like you to start using a conditioned reinforcer. You will need to install it first. Have the dog on lead. You will be a dispensing machine of his meal. Say Yes and then give a treat within a half a second. "Yes" treat for at least 10 times. Do that for 2 or 3 sessions. The dog does not need to do anything to get the treat. Fourth sessions when he is looking in a different direction, say Yes. If he looks at you, expecting a treat, then you have successfully installed a conditioned reinforcer. Praise is not something I would work with at this stage. Every time he does something you want to see more of in the future say Yes and give him a treat. We need to find some way of re-directing his bite onto an object rather than you. Please watch the following video on how to use a tug toy with your dog. Carry the tug with you all the time. If he starts to bite you redirect his mouth onto the tug toy. If he bites you let the tug out of your hands, and use the lead to hold him away from you while you take him to a room or part of the garden for a time out. Don't yell at him. Remain calm. Talk quietly. Notice that the trainer has his hands at the end of the tug toy. away from the dog's mouth. And that the tug toy is long. Don't expect this way of interacting with him to change your dog overnight. He has a history of being able to do what he likes. He has had too much freedom. But if you keep saying to him quietly "Not that way" and putting him in time out when he persists in biting you when you have the tug toy, then he will learn that biting you means the fun stops. Don't use this method anymore. Do not turn your back on him. It's not working. Use the tug toy to redirect his mouth from you onto the toy. Don't reward him with a Kong if he behaves badly. He gets a Kong to avoid boredom or you want to reward him for doing something desirable. From everything you have said, I think he just does not know how to interact properly. I don't think he is aggressive. He hasn't been trained properly--he hasn't been shown how he should interact with you. Let us know how you get on. .
I agree that you need to find a new trainer. Leaving aside what she is actually doing and whether it is acceptable or not, you yourselves are not doing it - so what's the point in her turning up to apply this pressure point once a week/month or whatever and meanwhile none of you are? Any training needs to be consistent to be effective. I'm not suggesting you all do what she is recommending, though - as frankly it sounds quite aversive. Instead, get rid of her...! Have you ever played tug with your dog? We seem to see more and more of these posts on this forum, about dogs getting over-excited and bitey. I have never had this problem with any of my dogs. They are taught to play WITH me, using toys and tugs, from a young age. They have zero reinforcement history for using my arms, legs or clothes for this - why would they want to? It's much more rewarding to bring me a toy so we can play together with that. My hypothesis is that people with these problems aren't teaching the dog that play happens with toys, or aren't doing this enough. They deal with puppy biting by pretending it doesn't exist and ignoring it and not responding to it. Meanwhile, behaviour comes from needs - and the dog NEEDS play and tug and to have an outlet for this. So, in the absence of any other outlet, they make their own opportunities - and it's not in ways we like. And then the 'game' gets very out of control and (in a large dog which hasn't been taught how to play using control) inappropriate and potentially dangerous. I think you need to work with a trainer or behaviourist using force-free methods to learn how to play with your dog using your terms: Wait until told to grab the tug toy; play tug without biting hands; release the tug on cue when asked to. If the dog comes to you and attempts to bite you, then you would lead the dog to a toy and encourage the dog to pick up the toy and come to you with it, for controlled play. I would highly recommend the online course, 'Relationship Building Through Play' which starts 1st December on the Fenzi Academy: https://fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/courses/20
