Hi....I have two 4 month old lab pup litter mates. They have learned to manage eating without fighting, but for the last week or so they have started fighting shortly after they eat (bowls removed) and when they get overly excited while playing. I realize that some of it is normal play, but when does it cross the line? I’m afraid they will hurt each other. They have not shown aggression towards any other dogs or anyone else for that matter.
Hi @tracy manning Welcome to the site. Sorry that you are prompted to write about a problem. In terms of statistics, it is a mistake to get two or more dogs from the one litter. Fighting is worse if they are bitches. I imagine it doesn't help to be told that now. But some other individuals might read this thread. Can you give us all, a good deal more information about the aggressive play? Could you please describe their body language? Exactly what they are doing? Are they taking turns in holding the other dog down? Stiff body language? Position of tails? And please attempt to describe any known triggers for the fighting.
One is male and one is female. They are almost inseparable, but do sleep in separate crates. Most of the time play is friendly, lots of chasing, rolling around, and sharing toys- we have 2 of everything but of course they want the same one. They will take turns holding each other down which usually leads to more chasing- with happy wagging tails. It seems that once they get to a certain level of over excitement the mood changes abruptly and fights ensue. Lots of teeth showing, nasty growling and biting each other. So far no injuries. I have to physically intervene to break them up- during the brawl they do not hear anything and will not respond to anything. Once separated we sit quietly for a while and then they are fine, they will get into the same bed and take a nap. It happens with over excitement and shortly after they eat-after the food bowls are removed.
Aside from sleeping, how seperated are they? I have 7 mo old ladies from the same litter and we've avoided any real fighting and their play has evolved leagues from when we got them. First month they just couldn't do off leash play outside without getting over threshold so we just ceased that till later. I was unaware of this problem when we adopted but read a lot and consulted other trainers. We seperated them entirely for a month aside from an hour or two in the evening with us in a playpenned living room. Walks, Eating, bathroom, obedience training, meeting other dogs/people, even time with the family 1 on 1. They did not like this at first. Screeching/anxiety howling, refusing to eat and staring at eachother in liue of playing with us, crate training took a lot of patience, but once done saved our life. Once we noticed that in the evening playpen sessions they were responding to obedience commands and maintaining eye contact while with each other we moved on to weekend walks together, and monitored play sessions in a fenced yard. They tend to play well for a few sessions then I'll have to cut one short if one starts to bully up (volume, not taking breaks in play when the other submits or bows out for a moment) i just use a lead and take one out. If it persists we just go home and chill out. It gets better and the moments of over stimulation are getting less frequent. Indoors we never had much issue but we made a floor layout without a lot of wide open space so they can't cage match or run about much. Limiting their speed seemed to end any loud play.
Often the problem with litter mates is that they are bonded with each other so much that they don't listen well, making them harder to train, and sometimes bully other dogs.
Hi @tracy manning Thanks for the reply. You are fortunate they get on so well together. The problem occurs when they go over threshold. Have each one on a house line when supervised inside. When you sense it soon will become too boisterous, then separate them. I suggest you play a version of Simon says. You may another an assistant. Simon says sit (stay if you add the other cue). Reward for becoming calm. Reward for duration. Or Simon says down (stay) Simon says dog X stay, while dog Y retrieves. Reward both dogs if they follow your cues. Then reverse roles. Teach steadiness. You are rewarding calm behaviour. You are also teaching them that you are fun to play with. You need to become the conduit for a lot of interaction. Let us know how you go.
Hmm, I totally agree with Michael - it's a huge mistake to take on two puppies at once and (this might not be a popular view or one you want to hear) the best thing you can do *for the puppies* is to re-home one of them where they will get the 1-2-1 attention with a human that they need and not bond excessively to another dog. These links all explain further and will save me doing a lot of typing: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/is...ems-Adopting-Two-Puppies-At-Once_16190-1.html http://blog.betternaturedogtraining.com/2013/07/18/littermate-syndrome/ As a behaviourist, I frequently get called out to see littermates who have started to fight, often very seriously, or littermates with other behavioural issues - such as one being very under-socialised and shy, because they didn't take in enough of the world, being totally focussed on their sibling any time they were out of the house. Littermate syndrome is a very serious situation and affects the development of the dog's personality for life. Whilst gundog trainers often keep pups from the same litter, they are kennelled separately with an older dog and don't spend excessive amounts of time together....
This was my biggest hurdle. Once we got them to behave well, one became eeyore an the other tigger. She would just watch the other soak up attention and play with the person, but never engage or overstep the other. Initially we were like fine she's a loner but then loose stools/late night barking/anxiety began to manifest. We narrowed it down to needing 1 on 1 time with us. When we assumed they could handle being together we didn't account for her needing that. She's been a lot better with getting private time with both her people, but it's kind of a hassle and a half timewise.
