We are first time dog owners and we rescued a 3.5 month old black lab/hound mix who is now 8 months old. We have been having serious trouble with arousal biting for 3 months or so. He has covered me in bruises and,2 months ago, he bit me repeatedly on my covered firearms leaving scrapes, welts, bruises and a hematoma. We have hired several trainers and now have a trainer who is well educated and very helpful. She has advised us to rehome him since we have children in the house and he can be unpredictable. He jumps and bites when he is excited (thinks it’s time to play with you like your a dog) or when he is frustrated (turning him around on a walk or asking him to do something he doesn’t want to do) Has anyone experienced this and can it be rehabilitated? Will he grow out of it? Or should we rehome? I am so torn. I love him, but the safety of my family is number one priority. He bit me last week on my bare hand and there was a puncture wound. He has training and exercise daily including 3-4 walks and play time in the yard. Any advice or experience you may have is appreciated!
Hi @akrollman Sorry to hear about your issue. Some additional info would be helpful. 1. Why did he bite your hand? What was the trigger? 2. What training have you done so far to stop the mouthiness? 3. What training in terms of obedience have you done? 4. What training did you teach him to be calm?
Gosh I feel for you, I really do. I adopted my dog aged 6 months from a family who couldn't cope with his behaviour. In the first few months I was getting bitten on a pretty regular basis, just as you describe, often out of the blue. His main trigger was anything to do with the lead, especially going back on the lead after running around. We have largely fixed this particular problem but he's 18 months old now and we still have occasional flip out moments (first one in 3 months happened last week at a Hoopers class, where he'd previously always behaved himself). I think if I had kids I would not be able to keep him, he is just too unpredictable, just when I'm congratulating myself on how much progress we've made, we take another step back. What seems to help with Loki is getting time on his own to sleep. He finds it virtually impossible to settle if there is stuff going on around him. He actually behaves better on days when we both go out to work (he still gets an hour's exercise, and plenty of opportunities to go outside and do his own thing) than when I'm off and making an effort to do lots of activities with him. Until he was about a year or so old I found 4 short walks safer than 1 long one combined with taking either his dinner or a pouch of cat food to help with getting over his hatred of the lead. I don't want to put you off, I think dogs like this can get better, but it might take a long time.
Thanks for your reply! 1. I had walked him to the vet’s office which is close to my house. While at the vet he ,understandably, became very aroused by the handling of vet techs and all the other dogs in the waiting area, etc. He presents this as being frantic and whining and scrambling around to get at every dog to meet them and play with them if he was alllowed. He grabbed a test hard out of the vet tech’s hand and he lunged at the vet’s glasses which he was holding in his hand. When we left I had him on the Halti gentle leader and was walking him home and he seemed ok although still amped up slightly. We alternate between “Let’s go!” time which is when he walks at a heel and isn’t allowed to sniff, etc. and “Get busy!” time which is his free time to sniff away and go the the bathroom, etc. When this incident happened, it was during his “Get busy!” time which surprised me because I wasn’t asking him to do anything. He just started pulling like crazy backwards with the leash in his mouth and he was backing into the street. The trainer had taught me how to grab the leash right next to his mouth and pull it sideways to get it out, but it wouldn’t budge. I tried a couple of times and I was awkward because I had my purse on me, so I dropped my purse and went to refocus and he jumped up and started biting my hands. Raked his teeth across the back of both hands and really got one good scrape in with a puncture. I’m guessing it was redirected pent up energy from the vet. The trainer told me next time to drive with him in the crate, muzzle him and take him straight into the treatment room when the vet is ready and avoid the waiting area. 2. For mouthiness in general, I redirect with toys or chews which works for the most part. The trainer has us using a spray bottle if he jumps and bites while we are on the couch. He also is tethered 95% of the time in the house. If he is not asleep or training or chewing on a toy, he is up to no good! Lol. Outside for the arousal biting, I use the halti and pull straight up on it which closes his mouth, but if he is biting the leash, I can’t do that. The trainer advised me to walk him with a muzzle. The Halti is a god send. I couldn’t walk him at all before that and I tried just about every other kind of halter and harness. 3. obedience: he knows and is fairly reliable with sit, down, come, (better inside than outside with that one!) He is very obedient when calm, but when aroused, all bets are off. He always sits before walking in or out of the house and goes last. Sits and waits in crate and waits for command to come out. Sits and waits for command to go into crate to eat his meals. 4. I had trained him to “settle” and that was working for a while. Not so much anymore. With this trainer we are doing “name and explain” with exciting sights and sounds when we are out on a walk. I name the sight or sound and then Give him a treat. That really seems to be working well. He still gets very worked up when other dogs are around though. But is getting better. He wants to meet and play with every dog. No aggression. And then there are the squirrels... She is also teaching me massage techniques, but I just started that and he hates it because I have to muzzle him to do it without getting bit. I also reward him for “easy” when I see him settle himself. I reward him with marker or treat for sits or downs that he does on his own. Sure I left out somethings but hope this helps!
Thank you so much for your reply and sharing your experience. It seems as though this arousal biting is common with golden retrievers as well. I’ve seen many posts of golden forums, but wasn’t sure about labs. Yes, if I didn’t have kids, I think this would be much more doable. The kids are pretty scared of him and only pet him when he is tired and calm. I actually am ok with the idea of rehoming him if I know he will go to a good home, without children, (not that he doesn’t like children, he does. He is just too bites and unpredictable and can bite HARD!) with people who are dedicated to training him and love his cute, spunky, smart self. It’s just the idea of “giving up”on him and starting the search. And also the day I have to pack up his things and say goodbye. That day plays over in my head with a lot of heartache.
I know you like this trainer and say you have a good relationship with them, but using an aversive of any kind really indicates that they are not experienced in the type of training which is going to be effective, safe and humane. Whereabouts are you based, it may be possible to recommend another trainer or for me to give you some lists to check out? Have you tried a front-fastening harness - specifically one which attaches on his chest, under his chin? I'm not a fan of Haltis, because again they are an aversive. They tighten around the dog's muzzle and cause discomfort, which the dog backs off from. As such, they are not really functioning that much differently than a prong collar or choke chain. I've had clients come to me with a Labrador that had ulcers all along the inside of its cheeks, from the Halti being tight around the muzzle, pushing the cheeks onto the teeth... BUT... there sometimes are dogs who need a head-collar of some kind whilst they are working on their loose lead walking training generally, and in those circumstances - provided owners are actively working towards an end goal of getting out of the head-collar, I can see a use for them. But not as something to stick on the dog permanently. What sort of physical exercise does he get, off-leash, on a daily basis? To me, he sounds under stimulated both mentally and physically and this is just creating all manner of problems for you. If he is tethered 95% of the time he is in the house, OF COURSE he is going to be all manner of wild in the 5% of time he is not. Heck, if I shut you in a small room for 95% of the day, you would be very excited when you got out!! He needs training, training, training. For example: If a dog has something in their mouth and you want them to release it, you should have a cue (like Drop) to ask the dog to release it and you should have treats (tasty treats!) on your person, to reinforce that. You should know how to put the treat on the dog's nose to get them to release if they don't release at first and it's an emergency. He should not be jumping on people, because he should have a Default Sit and should understand that the way to get anything he wants is to 'guess' a sit... And so on. What you describe instead, is endless amounts of management: The dog is putting stuff in his mouth that he shouldn't, so put a muzzle on him. The dog is pulling, so put a Halti on him. The dog bit a hand, so drive him to the vet's. The dog is difficult in the house, so we tether him 95% of the time. Where does this end? The dog barks, so get him debarked.... Heck, why not get all his legs amputated too... then he wouldn't be able to move... I exaggerate to make a point, but you see where I'm going... Now: Management is excellent and necessary whilst training is also happening, but BY ITSELF and when applied across a dog's entire life, it is inhumane. Because it involves removing and removing and removing everything the dog wants and is motivated to do, and restricting and restricting - replacing with physical control or prevention. If you are not working with training, there is no end goal to eventually be able to stop all that management and still have a well-trained dog. There is just ever increasing management - forever. Which sees the dog's life get ever smaller and impoverished. That is really not a solution. He really just sounds like he needs an excellent trainer who can show you how to train, or for you to be able to follow training programmes online - there are many excellent courses online, these days.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I agree with all you are saying. I am miserable and feel like I am “managing” this dog and rarely enjoy him at all. And he does not seem happy. I am frankly scared of him to be honest. I grew up with German Shepherds and have never been scared of a dog in my life other than my aunt’s yappy and nippy Chihuahuas! I think the trainer is thinking of human safety first. Making sure that no one else gets bitten and then gradually working on training in small chunks. The off leash exercise is a problem area. In October I let him off leash in a fenced-in field with no one else there so he could stretch his legs and run a little. He got over excited and started jumping and biting my forearms through 3 layers of clothing and I could feel my tendons rolling under his teeth and my hands were going numb from his teeth rolling the nerves. I was so scared he was going to severely injure my hands so I was protecting them as best I could. He didn’t bite my hands that day but he bit me multiple times in fast succession for what felt like several minutes. I was sobbing like a little kid and it was terrifying. I know he thought it was great fun and play, but in the moment I felt like I was being attacked. I still have scars all over my forearms from this. I never took him anywhere offleash again. My husband does a few times a week. I let him out in our back yard, but to get him back in I have to hold the spray bottle in my hand or he will jump and lunge at me and bite. If I bring a treat he will jump and lunge harder and try to snap the treat out of my hand. I know he needs training. And I do work on it daily. He has a great “come” in the house when I call his name. Outside he is just so over threshold he loses all sense of his training. I’m completely burnt out and feel like I am failing miserably. I tried the front clip harness and was hopeful the first time I had him out, but he quickly learned how to pull like crazy on it, and he can still jump and bite me with it on and when I stopped to talk with someone for less than 2 minutes, I looked down and he had completely chewed it off of himself and I was holding a dangling leash. I agree there are not great trainers in my area. They all claim to be the best (eye roll) The trainer I am working with had the same experience in this area (Fairfield, CT) when going to train her dog, and was so dismayed that she went out and educated herself and trained to be a trainer herself. She is AICP certified and reaches out to her support system a lot. He really responds well to her. He does not trust me. He leans away from me and gives me the wary eyeball. He barks and snaps at me when he is frustrated. The trainer and I both agreed that I should no longer use the squirt bottle. Only positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement through not giving him what he wants when he is being hyper, demand barking, etc. And rewarding him for sits, downs, eye contact calm behavior. Trust me. I had some horrible trainers after the forearm biting incident who really screwed things up. I feel so bad. This trainer thinks it is a very difficult situation for a novice like me and the fact there are kids in the house. Also that we have a very small house. To give you some background, he is a rescue and spent the first 9 weeks of his life god knows where. Hopefully with his mother and litter mates. Then was picked up on the street and brought to a high kill shelter. Then spent time in 2 foster homes in the south where he mostly ran in a large fenced in area with many other dogs until he was 3 1/2 months old and came to me. He learned to interact with other rough and tumble dogs in those first months and I feel like his “go to” is always his mouth to communicate enthusiasm or frustration. I know that with training he could learn because I see how great he is with the trainer. But I don’t know if I can learn enough fast enough to pull this off in a safe manner. It feels like a huge hurdle.
I would really recommend you get a clicker and do some clicker training with him. One of the benefits for you of this, is that the majority of the time, treats can be thrown for the dog to run and get in clicker training - and so you don't need to be delivering them to his mouth and afraid of how roughly he will take the treat. Second, I think you need to work on your relationship with him. You say: This is probably because you have been squirting him with water and when you want to get him in from the yard, you stand there with the bottle in your hand - that is - the only control you have over him, is how afraid he is of the squirt bottle. I don't imagine he likes the Halti much either(?) or likes that going on. So of course he is going to have negative associations with you and he is going to feel conflicted and ambivalent around you - which can lead to confused and over-aroused behaviours. You are the source both of this scary stuff, but also of everything good in his life - his meals, the times he gets outside etc. He doesn't know how to behave around you. The great thing these days is the internet - if you know where to look and where to find it, you can find excellent training programmes online from the world's best trainers. You can even find programmes where you get feedback and help, online. You are not dependent on what is available in your local area any longer. But you do need structure. You need to follow a training programme, step by step. You can do this in your house to start with. If he gets very excited around food and over-aroused, just use his normal meal - instead of putting his food down in a bowl, use it to train with. Click and throw him a few bits of kibble. You need to think about what you DO want him to do, instead of what you don't. If you don't want him to leap on you and mouth your arm, what behaviour do you want him to exhibit at those times instead? Sitting? Then train sitting, to the point where you can ask for it at those times. In terms of in-person trainers, I would recommend looking at: The Karen Pryor Academy: https://karenpryoracademy.com/find-a-trainer/#!directory/map The Academy for Dog Trainers (Jean Donaldson https://academyfordogtrainers.com/find-a-trainer For online training: Any of Emily Larlham's free videos, or her Leash Walking video series or membership schemes - anything she offers, really: https://dogmantics.com/free-videos/ Jean Donaldson's online training video which is free: For the harness, I would recommend trying the front-fastening Freedom-harness which comes with a double-attaching leash. He should not be able to get his jaw around any of the harness, if it fits properly. If you need additional control, take hold of the front attaching leash, nearer where it attaches. If you are worried about him getting out of it, use a Halti link to connect the harness to his collar so it won't be possible for him to escape.
Thank you so much for your detailed reply! Very helpful information and way of looking how he is processing our relationship. I will look into those videos for sure. I agree he hates the halti. He tries to bite me when I go to put it on, and I have to use a treat to get it on (so he takes the treat through the halti and I slip it over his nose and head. The front harness that I used in the past briefly fit him well in standing, but when he sat, it loosened enough for him to get his teeth around it. But that was a while ago, so I could try again. I just worry that if I am out on a walk and he becomes aroused or frustrated, he will start jumping and biting. Also, he could pull me like crazy on the front clip harness, and he can’t pull me on the halti unless he REALLY wants to which is rare. Right now, if he doesn’t get the leash in his mouth like he did when he jumped and bit my hands two weeks ago, I can pull straight up and close his mouth, so it gives me some control to stop this dangerous behavior. With just a front clip harness, how would I stop him if he started to jump and bite? Last night we were out for a walk and I took him down the same side street twice. When he saw that we were going down the same street we had already been on, he got really still with a stiff body and his tail was straight up in the air. Then he turned and looked at me and jumped up and me and pushed at me with his front paws. He didn’t bite, but I could see it was going there so I pulled straight up on the halti until he sat and then released and he tried to jump up about two more times. Then he stopped and we were able to walk. Also, I brought him to the beach on Friday for the first time. He was on leash the whole time and was very excited by the open space and the water. He approached another dog to play (he just wants to sniff and play with every dog like a typical puppy) but the other dog growled and the owner said he wasn’t friendly with other dogs, so I called Boomer off and pulled him with the leash and Boomer jumped up at the owner of the other dog and he may have put his teeth on the guys’ arm. I’m not sure, but wouldn’t be surprised. The guy had a jacket on, but I did see him look down at his arm. That is what scares me is the redirected aggression. That he will be frustrated not to be able to get to another dog or something he wants, and will turn and bite the nearest human. I’m not sure if I have to always muzzle him or just keep him away from other people and dogs, which would be a very restricted life where I live in a very populated area?
If you haven't desensitised the dog to a halti by now then I would ditch that piece of equipment. Might I suggest you attach the lead to the front and rear D rings of the harness. Lower your the centre of gravity of your body by bending at the knees and pushing your bottom out and down. Hold the lead with two hands on the lead. You will have lots of control. Carry a tug toy with you to put in his mouth to redirect away from your flesh. You must use the lead to make sure you stay at a safe distance from other dogs and handlers. As Jo pointed out you need to be rewarding calm behaviour. Until you have worked through a training program and seen a marked change in the dog's behaviour, then keep your distance away from triggers such as other dogs and humans. Use distance and maintain it to get the dog below threshold. Reward calmness with treats and praise.
