Help struggling with terrible behaviour

Do you know, I never thought that I would utter these words but today I have ..... "send her back, I can't stand her anymore" and then broke down in floods of tears.

Lola has been quite the perfect puppy fairly easy to house train and just lovely to be with, no chewing of anything no bad behaviour ...... But recently, she has just been spayed and since then, her personality has changed and she is basically horrible.

She is quite scary at times, she will jump up with her front paws on my knee, growl and snarl and bark which is very frightening and then start to run a riot around the house from room to room settee to settee and charging into anything in her way. I have a constant array of bruises and nipping bruises on my arms. The other week, the whole of my right leg was black and blue for nearly a fortnight after one of her bouts of running around.

When she goes for a walk which is frequently we live out in the country and there is a long lane to the end of the road, she is very sedate barely running about even if we take her ball, she isn't really interested and hardly uses any energy at all and then back home, all hell breaks loose with the running about and we wonder why she could not have run around outside.

She is difficult if we go walking outside of the home as she will not toilet although, I do realise that if she were desperate then she would have to. We are taking her with us on a short break in February for a few days and as the time gets nearer and nearer, it worries me more and more.

Practical help would really be appreciated.

 

It does sound like she is very young to be spayed, if still a 'puppy'? There can be adverse behavioural effects of early spaying or neutering, which is just one of many reasons it's not recommended (besides the increase in risk for many cancers as well).

Not toileting away from the house is a typical sign of immaturity - puppies often don't have the confidence to toilet away from the house until they are somewhat older, which is why it's important there is a garden/yard available they can toilet in before that...

You haven't really mentioned much psychological 'exercise' by way of training - just 'walks' with her. Labradors are highly intelligent and really need a good session every day of training and mental stimulation, followed by ad hoc sessions when they present themselves. And if all your 'walks' involve the same lane to the end of the road and the same or similar land, then that's not going to be very stimulating either, not being a new place...

As for running around and barking, this is just inappropriate play. If you don't like it, then the dog goes in the crate with a Kong until they have calmed down and can come out. I certainly wouldn't let it go on long enough that anyone gets hurt from it. But you also need to be addressing the reason behind all this pent up energy - as mentioned above.

 

Hello! I'm sorry to hear of your puppy troubles. I know from experience it's so much work and so frustrating when they're just out of control and have zero interest in listening to you. I don't know much, as I'm currently going through the puppy troubles with my first dog ever, but I can tell you some things that worked for me (generally).

1. The growling and biting. Mira (my dog) gets this way on walks when she's frustrating we're not going in the direction she wants or at home when I firmly tell her no about something. I take a little spritzer bottle on our walks, if she gets belligerent I spray her once and then shake the bottle and say "uh-uh" or "quit it." This lets her know I'm not playing around and she stops. If we're at home and she's acting up I say "uh-uh Mira!" and stand up tall (keeping my hands away). If this doesn't work I put her leash on her and take her into my room, which is where she sleeps, and close the door behind us. I then ignore her until she calms down (making myself visibly busy with something else). Now, my puppy might be older than yours and I can tell you her willfulness used to be A LOT worse. She'd fight me over every "no," just the way you're describing (snarling, growling, jumping, biting) and it usually came when she was highly excited. It's taken her a long time to get that "fighting back" isn't tolerated and that if she's going to act that way she's going to have her freedom in the house seriously curtailed or get spritzed on the walk.

2. The walks. Mira will not play by herself on a lead. She used to ignore the ball - fetch didn't come naturally to her. I've had to really get involved on her walks if I want her to expend some energy. I have to run around with her, she loves to chase and be chased. I've taught her what I want (in the house) when I throw the ball and now she brings it back (outside) for a treat. Now, she's all about fetching and playing around me. She still loves a good chase game but I've evolved that into recall training - I tell her to sit and stay and then walk away. Then I start running and calling her name and off she goes, running like a bat out of hell, to get to me and sit down politely for her treat.

I found that it's all about engaging them. We train, play, explore and generally try to find constructive ways to use her boundless energy. It's not easy though and she still acts a fool at least once daily despite all her progress. I hope you'll find stuff that works for you (especially a way to let your puppy know it's calm-down time) and it gets easier to handle her. Good luck!

 

Hello from a fellow North Yorkshire Lass ! how old is your pup ? When you walk her, does she meet other dogs ? That’s what usually makes Meg run around otherwise is steady exploring. Have you tried obedience classes ? These made a huge difference to us in regards sharing experiences but also taught us both how manage challenging behaviour . We stuck at them for a year, was so worth it.

 

Oh dear. Imagine I'm a dog. I'm frustrated. Now you spray me. Can you imagine how I now feel? This spraying of dogs is not going to end well, at least with some dogs. And some Labradors treat spraying as positive reinforcement. Let's play!

Why not try an alternative? Have the dog on a long line. Don't acknowledge the belligerent behaviour. Let her go for a run when she is frustrated. Let her run off the frustration.

 

Where does that end, though? Should I not even say "no" to her when she's seriously misbehaving, in case it upsets her further (and trust me, it will)? How does she get the message that there is certain behavior that won't be tolerated and, regardless of her feelings, it's my way or the highway? At a certain point and with certain behavior, it's not reasonable to have to appease and negotiate with your dog to get them to act right.

I have tried alternatives. Stopping and standing still. Standing on the leash and turning away. Saying no. Dropping the leash and walking away. Distracting her with a command to sit/whatever. Busying myself with something else to distract her and get her interest. Those actions didn't stop the behavior quickly and calmly like shaking the bottle or spraying her one time. I usually don't even need to spray her anymore and if I do just spritzing in her general direction is enough now.

We spend hours everyday on trips to the park to run around and play fetch, regular walks, playing in the back yard, her zoomies, etc., and she still occasionally finds the energy to throw a fit if I don't let her chase a squirrel down the road. I don't have the time or energy to budget for ad lib "frustration" runs every time she's acting peevish about not getting her way.

 

Hi @R Lewis

I understand your issue. But there is a long metaphorical road to take before resorting to corrections

And I was responding to the observation that the dog was frustrated. Why is the dog frustrated? How is a correction going to reduce the frustration?

As a matter of dog training, one should not correct a dog unless you have already taught and trained a particular cue, and you are certain that the dog understands the cue. Why? Suppose I say sit to my dog and she does not sit. She does it at home. The problem is that I have said sit to her in a radically different environment. I have changed the criterion. I should transition back to teaching or acquisition mode. It is unethical to expect the dog to follow the cue if I have never trained her to do in the radically different environment.

I have to be certain that the dog is physically capable of doing it too. I don't want to correct a dog who has a hip problem.

So if my dog does not follow my cue, my first inclination is to ask, what has changed about the environment? What haven't I trained for in terms of distraction/environment. Make a mental note and ensure that I train for that specific distraction by working up to the level I experienced when she did not follow my cue.

If she understands what she needs to do, and is playing up because she has pent up energy, then I'll give her the tug toy. She can carry it around. Or I'll let her loose on a long line.

In your case perhaps carry around roast chicken to reward her should she follow your cue rather than chasing the squirrel?

 

There is a growing number of dog owners that practice force free dog training now, and this is an approach that we support and encourage on this forum. It is actually possible to train a dog without any force at all, you might find this short article interesting: https://totallydogtraining.com/dog-training-using-the-word-no/

And this one: https://thehappypuppysite.com/modern-dog-training/


@Annemarie Betts How old is your puppy?

 

No she does not encounter any other dogs whilst we are out walking unless next doors dog is out and about on a general day to day basis. We live in Wigglesworth and have tried to source training classes but have not come across any. She is constantly being trained throughout the day in and out of doors and rewarded for good behaviour .. she is completely different today, quiet calm and a pleasure to be with, yesterday was really one of the worst days ever and tomorrow could be the same. Thanks for your help. Annmarie Merry Christmas

 

That's very good news. You can reinforce that behaviour, which will raise the probability of it happening tomorrow. Merry Christmas too. (And peace to Mira via positive reinforcement)!

 

We have, elsewhere on the forum at the moment, a good example of the fall-out of using spray bottles like this. Spraying the dog in this way does not teach them exactly what it is about their behaviour that you dislike - they don't know whether it's pulling on the leash, whether it's sniffing the floor, whether it's chewing the leash - because punishment never communicates adequately or identifies exactly what it is. Therefore, no learning occurs.

Punishment works by having a globally inhibitive effect on behaviour. That means, it closes down ALL behaviour - not just the undesirable behaviour. The dog may look subdued, stop pulling, but also stop sniffing, stop sitting (if they were), stop just about everything.

As such, it is as very blunt weapon - it's like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.

(In my classes we have a 'no dogs' class at the start of the course, and one of the exercises I get someone to do, is to direct another person to a particular spot in the room by saying 'NO' when they take a wrong step. Sometimes people end up standing still - they would rather do nothing, than take a step and be told 'NO' - such is how punishment works. They still have no understanding of where the 'right' step is, or of what is desired from them... )

Identify what you want the dog to do, positively, and teach the dog to do that. That identifies what you DO like and then learning can occur. And your relationship with your dog won't get damaged, in the meantime.

 

As far as cues, Mira is good but she can't be the only puppy who ignores a cue when she's super hyped up? She'll get in a headspace where she's not permanently redirectable by any other means I've tried. If I told her to sit and she did it, she'd take a treat and we'd wait a while, but when I started to walk again she'd be back at it, jumping at me, nipping at the leash and sleeves, and growling. A full blown tantrum. Otherwise she has no problem with doing all her behaviors when she's calm and happy in whatever environment, barring the dog park, I've tried.

I've been trying to break through her "distracted mode" for a while (it's her/my Everest) - getting her attention back evenly a little bit when she's intensely focused on something else. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Usually distance is the determiner. If the temptation is strong enough, she won't even turn her head to take a treat that's inches from her face if it means looking away from the focus point. She's very into other dogs, for instance, and treats don't seem to compare. I'm going to try to get her into a doggy day care and a training class next year where she can play with and just calmly be with a few dogs in a safe environment (I don't do the dog parks anymore) more regularly and hopefully bring down the excitement and novelty when she sees them randomly on walks.

I agree that physical corrections are a last resort, and even then should be minimal (i.e. a painless spritz of water). I don't spank her, put my knee up or push her away to stop her jumping up, wouldn't dream of putting a shock collar on her, don't yank her leash to get her attention, etc. But in the specific situation I'm talking about, where her excitement/frustration leads to her getting out of control and physically hurting me or ripping at my clothes, I've had to take drastic measures - that metaphorical road isn't as long. My frustration outweighs hers.

 

But she does stop the tantrum and walk on normally when I show her the bottle? She doesn't seem the least bit confused about what I'd like her to stop and what I'd like her to do instead. I have other methods of correcting misbehavior that isn't as severe - like trades for contraband items or redirection when she's getting to physically playful with someone else - but those tantrums were frankly not something I was going to let go on if she wanted to go on walks with me. And I think now she gets it.

In my mind, a good relationship can only be possible if her behavior is tolerable to me (in fact that's how I found her - her first owners couldn't handle a puppy). I want to meet her needs and teach her and give her stuff lots of stuff she enjoys, but at the same time I need her to know, for my benefit and therefore hers, there are hard limits to her puppy shenanigans.

 

A dog doesn’t have a “tantrum”. They don’t have the emotional capacity to have a tantrum.

She is playing and getting over excited.

All you have taught her is that she doesn’t like being squirted in the face. If your method worked - you wouldn’t have to get the bottle out at all because she would have stopped the behaviour by now.

 

Playing, tantrum, overexcited, etc. are just semantics. She's not "playing" in a way that's acceptable or normal for us, so I call it a "tantrum" since it's definitely linked to being denied something she wants and far more bitey and aggressive than she would ever be if we were playing normally.

The tantrums are much fewer and far between since I've instituted the bottle shake/squirt. It used to be every walk. Now, it's once or twice a week and the trigger has to be enormous. If you've got a way to communicate one or two times to an excitable puppy not to do something and that's it, forever, then well done. Mira is, in the words of Charlie Murphy, a habitual line-stepper and needs reminding.

 

@JenBainbridge And I don't squirt her in the face.

 

I completely agree with @JenBainbridge. In calling her behaviour a 'tantrum', you are ascribing qualities to it beyond what it is. You are personifying it and projecting far more onto it, than what you have. Calling something a 'tantrum' is an attempt to justify the use of punishment, beyond calling it just chewing on the leash or pulling or whatever she is doing.

Showing her the bottle is not addressing what is behind the behaviour at all. You have not taught her how to manage feelings of frustration; how to work through them to achieve what she wants through self-control - you are simply using fear.

If you cause any animal to be afraid, you get fight, flight or freeze. A dog on leash can't really use 'flight', and the majority of domestic dogs don't want to use 'fight' - which leaves freeze. Also known as the global inhibition of behaviour. That doesn't mean she understands anything - or, as Jen says, you would not need to show her the spray bottle anymore.

You are just carrying a device, the sight of which causes the dog to feel fear - and the fear causes her to behave in a subdued way. That's not 'training', she is not 'learning' anything, other than that you are someone to be afraid of and that you are unpredictable.

 

I don’t. I have months and months of training - a ridiculous amount of patience and lots of kindness. And some scars to prove it.

I now have a nearly three year old dog who has been shown nothing but kindness and love and that’s all he gives in return.

 

It's not unpredictable, though. Throw a tantrum, get shown the bottle. As predictable for her as 'sit when I ask, get a treat.'

I should add that she's not evincing any fear of the spray bottle or of me when I hold it. She doesn't wince or shy away if I hold it or put it in my pocket when she's not misbehaving. She'll lick at it if I do little sprays in near mouth. She also loves playing in the hose, trying to grab the spray right in her mouth, which is a torrent compared to my bottle.

Repercussions from gross misbehavior can't be that foreign of a concept for a social animal. Surely other species with closely-quartered social groups have ways to firmly communicate "stop" to each other and especially to young, inexperienced, rambunctious members? I don't agree that she's destined to fear me because I've set a reasonable boundary, with a predictable, painless punishment when crossed, for her.

 

Hello, I grew up near you and now live not so far away so understand the geographical challenges to access services. Have a google about training near Skipton, a bit of a drive but worth it. Some do longer sessions which cut down the travelling. I did obedience classes for over a year and was well over an hour round trip. It paid off though. Have a lovely Christmas Emma.