My 22 month old intact male yellow lab has shown two instances of dog aggression this week. He is regularly around other dogs and has not shown this behavior before. He is a big boy, around 80 pounds, and I am a 67 year old woman, so controlling him when he started snarling and growling and pulling towards the other dog was a challenge. He is a great dog, though hard headed. I do training with him but he literally seemed completely unaware of me and the commands I gave during these two instances. How do I, or can I, correct this new behavior with training? I know lots of folks believe neutering is the answer but what if it isn’t? I made the decision not to neuter because of the health issues surrounding that practice, but now i’m worried I made the wrong call. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. PS- I also have a 4 year old Golden Retriever.
Hi @Sarge Brown I would try Look at That training. https://thelabradorforum.com/threads/look-at-that.22184/ Watch the video for a very clear explanation.
Thank you Micheal. This is a great video. I had started reusing my “Look at me”with Sarge after the two instances of aggressive reaction, which has worked well previously while walking in the neighborhood past or around other other dogs. My “Look at me” is very similar to the LAT, but in the two cases last week with Sarge, the dogs were too close before I recognized Sarge’s reaction. I am going to try LAT starting tomorrow, and be more vigilant of other dogs. I love this video as she has two dogs on lead, which is almost always the case with me. Two 80 pounders. Thank goodness Rocky is Mr. Calm and Colllected, even when Sarge becomes a lunatic! My fear was/is that these two instances of aggressive reaction could reflect an aggressive turn in Sarge’s otherwise friendly nature. And I want to correct that ASAP if so. Some of my dog owning friends have tried to,reassure me that sometimes dogs just don’t like the way another dog is reacting to them, or that their order may be a ttrigger. In any case it looks like LAT may be a great correction training for Sarge. Thank you again.
Glad you found it useful. I held my first obedience class yesterday for the year. 5 reactive dogs. Two of them Labs. Had not been socialised properly, in fact, the Labs not at all. I wish prospective owners would consult a dog trainer before getting a dog. So I abandoned the first part of the planned lesson and taught LAT. On the group's facebook site I shared a link to that video. It's a wonderful teaching tool I don't what that means. Could you explain? If you see the arousal level going above threshold, then back off quickly to create distance. Then carry out the LAT protocol.
I take offence at this statement 'had not been socialised properly'. This reads that ALL dogs that are reactive have not been socialised properly. This is simply not true. I made sure by reading as much as possible from so called experts about the correct socialisation and I have a dog who is dog/dog reactive and no he doesn't want to play with them, he's afraid of them. Sarge brown, neutering may make the situation worse. I joined a Facebook group on reactivity and a lot who had got there dogs neutered said it made it worse but it doesn't help you as it's all anecdotal, I chose to keep my dog entire as I know that my dogs reactiveness is caused by lack of confidence and is fear based. You have a younger dog who hasn't been attacked, I would definitely avoid entire males if possible and learn as much as possible about reactiveness in dogs.
Sorry that you take offence. But I did speak to the owners. They said that their dogs had not been socialised. I never made a claim that aggression/reactivity can only be traced back to inadequate socialisation.
Michael I intended to say that “another dog’s behavior or odor” may cause the reaction I saw in Sarge. I mentioned that only because the first dog was just 6 weeks after a neuter and the second dog became aggressive first. But I don’t think either would be an excuse for Sarge’s behavior. He has been around other dogs people and places since he was a wee puppy, in different settings and circumstances. He has been around other dogs in training classes, in play, during walks, at vets, visiting family and friends, in crowds, etc. Last week was the first sign of “reactive” or “aggressive” behavior. I have continued to take him out and about since the incident and have seen no more indications of problems as he walks past other people and dogs. I am practicing the LAT. Cupcase Thank you for the good advice and input. I agree that neutering is no guarantee of correcting this behavior, and I really believe that we should be able to address it with training and/or behavioral therapies. I will continue his training and mine.
Our two friends Sammys are reactive to other dogs when they are on a leash, but generally fine with other dogs when they are at an off leash dog park. Unfortunately neither has particularly good recall, so they don't let them off leash much except in a controlled space. Makes me feel lucky to have two Labs, that aren't reactive, do stick fairly close to home if they are out un-supervised for a few minutes and do come when called.
FWIW, both of the Sammys are neutered and I don't think it made any difference in their behavior. We took care of one of them for several months when he was a pup. I was always concerned about how reactive he was to other dogs. Even when they were on the other side of the street, he would strain at the leash and bark. Nothing I or his owner did seemed to stop the behavior, but she did not ever consult a trainer. One thing I have noticed at the dog park, the Sammys are more interested in the other dogs, while our Labs tend to be more interested in playing with us. Cooper is very competitive retrieving tennis balls, but not aggressive or reactive.
Thank you Ski-Patroller. If Sarge had shown me signs earlier, I guess I wouldn’t be so concerned. He is usually playful, though boisterous, with other dogs, on or off leash. So this behavior kind of came out of left field. Unfortunately I lost all my training and reacted poorly. Thank god Sarge is a forgiving sort and hasn’t been mad at me. He is very sensitive to my facial and body cues, and my tone, that I truly am thankful he didn’t realize how shaken I was. He has been fine with other dogs since, and I am working hard with LAT to try and assure we have no issues while out walking.
Hi, Sarge’s “mom” again. I have been researching and digesting information pretty much non-stop since I first posted. I am strugggling to understand when a dog (my dog) is aggressive versus just doesn’t like another dog or feels very threatened, and whether that even matters in how I should proceed in his training. Sarge had never growled or snarled or acted aggressive before, though regularly around other dogs while he (and they) were on or off leash. He is a boisterous playful young Lab that clearly can benefit from more training. He was well socialized as a puppy, with other dogs people and environments. He hasn’t acted out since the 2 instances I posted about. I have been using both “Look at that” and “Look at me” depending on how early I spot a potential “trigger.” I have even scheduled a meeting with a dog behaviorist. But is it possible I am over reacting? Could he just be the boisterous dog loving guy I thought he was and just disliked these two dogs for some doggy reason? And again, does it matter, as to how I approach his training/behavior modification/redirection? I have been distracting and redirecting consistently when I see any dog, yet I want him to be able to meet greet and play with other dogs. I don’t know what triggered the two instances of “aggression”, so I am reacting the same towards all dogs—just in case. If I continue with my current method he won’t get the chance while walking with me to playfully interact with another dog because he is distracted from the very dogs he might otherwise play with. I welcome any and all comments. Sue The neurotic devotee of Sarge and his Golden Retreiver brother Rocky
I was just thinking about this again after Cooper had a very vigorous play session with one of our neighbors Labs. Both of them caught snowballs, chased each other in the snow, and did about the biggest play fight I have ever seen. Both of them on their back legs, all mouth and teeth, but it was obvious that they were playing. No yelps, no blood, and if one stopped the other stopped. Cooper is almost 4, and the other Lab, Cody, is close to 2. They are about the same weight, though Cooper is taller. Cooper is very good at reading other dogs body language. She is much more likely to play with other gun dogs, and usually ignores small dogs. Twice I have seen her really tell another dog she did not like what the other dog was doing, but normally she will ignore other dogs, or play with them if they seem to have the same play attitude.
Sue/ @Sarge Brown I like how you are trying to get to the bottom of this and researching it. If one dog was only just very recently neutered and the other dog was an intact male, I think it's likely that he is reacting to intact males - because this is quite common. This doesn't mean you should neuter him though - you are quite right in having done your research into that and decided not to. The thing is: Interactions between dogs are very complicated. You said that in one instance the other dog barked and reacted to him first - so he was 'only' reacting to that other dog's behaviour. That sounds pretty normal and understandable to me. And the other dog, you don't know what 'look' the other dog shot him or whether the other dog was 'standing tall' towards him and presenting itself as a threat in an attempt to intimidate.... Humans miss these things and only notice when the reactivity itself occurs. It is very easy for human society to pathologise ALL dog aggression and reactivity - when actually sometimes it is appropriate and understandable. I have some links you might want to read... https://suzanneclothier.com/article/just-wants-say-hi/ https://notesfromadogwalker.com/2013/05/10/stand-up-for-your-dogs/ As for other dogs, I would suggest you avoid other intact male dogs. But really, it is humans who think that dogs 'should' play and run with other strange dogs. Many dogs really don't want to do this and don't view it as very enjoyable. But still, humans are so addicted to it that we create dog parks and doggie daycare and group dog walks and meet up with other dog owners and their dogs - just so dogs can run together. This belief really creates way more problems - from dogs which become over-friendly bullies towards other dogs: https://totallydogtraining.com/over-friendly-dog/ http://playwaydogs.com/we-need-to-s...DMK5WQ83Yab7_7_WByR6oHljCpEGHvdY68YrdV4O-2mEs To dogs which learn to become habitually over-aroused: https://paws4udogs.wordpress.com/2012/01/06/too-much-of-a-good-thing/ To dogs learning things we don't want them to learn from other dogs: https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/blog/Dog-Parks-Are-Dangerous-21816-1.html Really it's best to let go of this one as an expectation. Try to cultivate a small group of dog friends that you know he gets on well with - probably female dogs, possibly neutered males - and stick to them. Dogs which live with several other dogs don't really have a need at all to go meeting strange dogs out of the house at all, this is really only those dogs which live alone... Lastly, 22 months is still quite young and he is only just coming out of adolescence now. You may well find that, if you can continue to prevent encounters with other dogs of this nature, that this behaviour fades away as his hormones settle and as his brain matures. Typically intact and older adult males, are quite secure in their status as an intact male and don't feel the need to behave in this way - hopefully he will mature into one of these!
Jo Laurens Thank you so much for this very thoughtful and educational post. I have read all of your recommended articles. Your post and the articles made me cry. I have always tried to be my dogs’ protector, but so clearly failed Sarge. Thank god he is a forgiving and loving boy. I have learned a great deal about Sarge over the past 2 years, but clearly not everything. I have learned much about myself in the past 2 months. I hope to become a better handler and protector for both my boys. Since first joining this forum I quit the training class I was attending with Sarge. I did have Sarge seen by a behaviorist/trainer, and engaged her to work privately with Sarge and me. She very kindly explained many of the same points your post did. And, she is so very soft in her approach that Sarge and I are both enjoying our time with her, and with each other so much. As part of her assessment she asked me very detailed questions about Sarge that really made me stop and reflect. Through those reflections I came to realize that Sarge had been telling me of his fears and concerns all along. I just hadn’t paid appropriate attention. Her questionnaire took me 7 single spaced pages to respond. It challenged me to look at Sarge, and myself, with awareness. We still have some things to work on, and will probably always have things we can improve, but he is already more confident. We have had no further issues with other dogs while out and about, and I believe LAT/LAM started that confidence as it made me more aware of what Sarge was concerned with as we saw others along our routes. Your post, and those of Michael’s, have been especially helpful, but I appreciate everyone that contributed to this post. You have made a difference in this dog lover’s view. So thank you again. I will post again as Sarge and I continue our learning.
That is super, I'm really glad that you have managed to find a trainer/behaviourist who works in a way which respects the dog and where the dog is, and has helped you to see this too
I thought I would do a short update regarding Sarge. He has matured quite a bit over the last several months, and is fitting into his adult skin very well. He is very good now at either looking to me or redirecting his attention by himself rather than barking and pulling when spotting other dogs along our walk routes. He will whine and lean if he wishes to play with a known dog, or a new dog he thinks is ok. I still pretty much always redirect this too, as I don’t think he needs to play with strange dogs, and doggy friends can be unfriendly sometimes. However, I am working on a polite meet and greet with him, where he will simply sit at my side while I say hello to a neighbor or friend with a dog. This is a little challenging but I know we will figure this out, too. And if not I will simply wave in passing. Because I occasionally have to be gone for most of a day as my medical/dental team is about 2.5 hours from home, I use a small “daycare” that my groomer provides for a few of her clients, so as not to leave Sarge and Rocky on their own for 7 or 8 hours. In the 2+ years Sarge has gone there he was never reactive to any of the other dogs, male or female. Until about 2 weeks ago. And, interestingly, it was towards a spayed female dog, younger and smaller than Sarge. I reflected on some of the articles Jo provided to me, and advice from my trainer, and decided to simply avoid this dog in future. My groomer/day care provider let’s me schedule well in advance and then doesn’t allow the young female on that day, and offers the same arrangement with the female dog’s owner. Win win for all concerned. If ever there is a conflict, well it I am sure Rocky and Sarge will be fine here at home. So, bottom line, Sarge does sometimes react to other dogs, but rarely anymore. And when he does react his reaction is no longer lunging and barking. He is the loving gentle kind boy he was bred to be. A grand fun companion and one very good dog. We will keep working to improve our communications and understanding of one another, and continue training together because we both have lots to learn, and it is fun. Regards Sarge and Sue
What a lovely report. Thank you for updating us. You have obviously made a lot of progress and your efforts are being rewarded I'm sure this will be encouraging for others
