Morning all, not been around for a while, but looking forward to catching up. I have a bit of an issue with Jax (18 months) which I don't know how to sort. I am lucky enough to be able to walk in areas where I can let the dogs off the lead for the majority of the walk. Jax's recall is excellent 99% of the time. He goes days / weeks and will come to me EVERY recall to get a treat, or to get his lead put on when we see other walkers etc. However, the last 6-months he has started to ignore me and not come near me, to the point where I have been out for hours until I come across someone else with a dog who can intervene and hopefully grab his collar. But like I say, he will do it once, then nothing for days / weeks at a time. Triggers I think are the issue are some bitches, ball throwing and today stick throwing. More often than not I walk in a group of 3 of us with 5 dogs in total. If a ball gets thrown for any of the dogs, and Jax gets hold of it, he keeps it - this is new behaviour, he used to always bring it back. Not only will he keep it, he won't come near me so I can't get him home. This is similiar when a stick gets thrown (happened this morning). He will lie down, and basically guard it. He has never had anything taken off him toy wise, his retrieve was always 'given' to me, rather than taken from him during training. He only gets toys pulled from him during play which he instigates, tug of war etc. I've revisited the book and upped the training again which admittedly had lapsed a wee bit due to how good he was, but like i say, it can be perfect recall for weeks, then 1 walk it happens. He is getting wise to others helping me catch him now, so he wont go near anyone. He does follow me though, he doesn't run off, just not near enough for me to get him back on lead. It is literally doing my head in and is a strain on our relationship at the mo. Any ideas / tips for me to try?
Hi @GaryC Welcome back. I would try giving him a reinforcer he really likes when he complies with Come, each and every time he comes.. Initially keep him on long line until you are 100% confident he will always come. Use a biothane long line and let it trail behind him. With the sticks I would try using two identical sticks so that you can exchange one for the other. I wonder whether the presence of the other dogs results in the resource guarding. Maybe each dog gets a turn to retrieve a stick, while all the other dogs do a down stay.
Sounds fairly logical to me. You take him out with other dogs, throw a ball, the fastest dog gets it. It gets taken off that dog for another dog to get. Not all dogs are going to be too trilled with this game and are going to want to keep the prize.This has probably been exasperated by people grabbing at him in frstration and him being put on his lead. I'd suggest walking him on his own for a while and go back to retriever training. You can then start asking him to retrive in front of the other dogs (with the other dogs restrained!) until everything is being brought back 100% of the time. Have you trained him to the whistle? Also, please don't throw sticks for dogs. Generally people will until they have a horrific accident, but worth a try.
That is the kind of stuff I am going through at the mo. But it isn't an issue only when with the other dogs, it has also happened whilst we have been out alone. Today was only the 2nd walk back with the others after about 2 weeks alone (I have another pup too, but this issue started before the newbie came along). The other day whilst out alone, we bumped into another walker with his bitch, who Jax has met 100 times and been fine, but the other day he just wouldnt come back to me. Strange. Agree on sticks, it wasn't me that threw the stick.
You are correct. There is a firm in Australia, AussieDogs, that make artificial sticks that cannot injure the dog, even if the dog attempts to run through a narrow doorway.
It sounds as though he has learnt that coming back is not the best thing to do in various circumstances then. When you had the issue with the bitch, what did you do when you did get him?
Fortunately on that walk the fields and woods are compartmentalised so there are loads of gates, he had to come past me to get to where he wanted to go, and i was able to grab his collar. Just put lead on and ignored what had just happened / walked back to the car park.
So here's your answer. From his point of view, would he prefer to stay and flirt with a bitch, or come back to you, get grabbed, put on his lead and walked back to thecar park?
That's true, but, the same issue can occur when it is about a ball, and nothing to do with another dog. I know the answer is to up the training and take it from there, but when I do that, he becomes an ideal dog again, great at training, [almost] perfect at recall, for sometimes weeks, then he does it again. It is easy fixed by walking him on the lead permanently, then it won't happen again, but I am really reluctant to do that. He loves his walks in the hills and fields.
Whilever you are reinforcing his expectations of being grabbed and his fun being stopped (flirting with a bitch, playing keep away with a ball/stick, getting chased by your walking friends) he will keep doing this. I'd suggest walking him on his own for a while and go back to retriever training. You can then start asking him to retrieve in front of the other dogs (with the other dogs restrained!) possibly with him on a long line, until everything is being brought back 100% of the time. Have you trained him to the whistle?
I think there are several things which are non-ideal happening here, which will help you if fixed... The problem you're having is stemming from 'keep-away' tendencies in your dog, with a retrieve object. These may occur only under specific circumstances (ie certain levels of arousal, or in the presence of other dogs) - but their existence tells us that there IS latent keep-away issue-ness in the dog, even if it's not always apparent in all circumstances. The solution to keep-away, is the clicker retrieve - which is the force-free equivalent to force-fetch - and a solidly trained retrieve. There are various versions of the clicker retrieve available online, and I also offer an online course on the subject. I can't speak to other versions, but the version I have definitely eliminates keep-away if followed properly. Whilst working on the retrieve, you don't want to be throwing things for the dog at other times. And you need to consider retrieves occurring in the presence of other dogs to be a 'level 10' in terms of difficulty and not attempt these until you have it more than perfect in other situations. Taking a step further back, I'd say that it's not really 'fair' on a dog to be throwing retrieve items for them when there are other dogs off leash in the same area. Of course other dogs are going to show interest in a new and highly interesting item which has been thrown - and other dogs showing an interest in wanting it, is highly likely again to make your dog decide to keep it for himself and kick him straight back into keep-away behaviours. Running retrieves when other dogs are sitting at heel, or when other dogs are working and running their own retrieves and focussed on their own tasks, is one thing - throwing things for dogs when there are several other dogs off leash and off-task and free to do what they want (and un-trained) is another thing entirely. It is only generating feelings of competition and possessiveness and keep-away....
When I first got my dog I had huge issues with leads in general and in particular getting him back on the lead after he'd been running around ( biting, growling etc not just recall issues). I found taking his dinner (initially tinned food but I even did it with raw once we switched) and feeding him the whole lot out of atupperware container when I put the lead on really changed his feelings about going back on the lead. Even now, I still give him a treat just about everytime I put the lead on and for the first few steps to remind him not to pull. I still carry a pouch of cat food in my rucksack to reward exceptionally good recalls (eg away from deer). He actually comes running over if he sees the lead come out of my pocket which I find incredibly gratifying. I also did a lot of lead-on, treat, lead-off practice on the advice of people on this forum just to make it clear that lead-on didn't equal end of fun.
I have dogwood it's made of real wood I gave it Willow in the garden as she tends to eat sticks she finds.
I get Willow to find treats on the floor and sometimes shout touch she forgets what she is doing and comes straight back. I walk her with my hubby who is constantly saying "Willow come" now she just ignores me so I had to make her come back in other ways. I tell him to only call her back when we want her by our sides. She tends to roll in nasty or eat it so we are calling her if she looks like she is going to do these things. Hens the find it to distract her.
The danger of real wood is that it can splinter in the dog's mouth; If the dog stumbles while carrying the stick, then the stick can pierce the dog's mouth or throat; or if the dog attempts to go through a gap narrower than the width of the stick, then the stick can break and pierce the dog. Dummies are a much safer option for retrieve, even if you don't intend on training your Lab to be a gundog. And Kong's are safer than sticks. My Lab likes to bring sticks inside. She then bites them to create a pile of broken up stick. I try to keep the garden relatively clean of branches because left to her own devices she would bring the garden inside.
It's not Wood Michael it's safe wood for dogs. https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/...Ia1CRvN5IK1orMx4f6hoCpPkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Hmmm. @WillowA . Thanks for the link. I am assuming that with chewing bits will be ingested by the dog. Is the synthetic material safe?
We watch Willow and any bits that are chewed off we take away she only gets it in the garden when we are with her otherwise she finds sticks or my plants so this is safer for her.
