Hi Julie, A colleague has kindly provided the following. I'll poke around and return to you. Andy There have been quite a few papers on disease and death form insurance companies, especially in Sweden. There is also now a lot of information from vet clinical data. These probably dwarf the information coming from the KCs. But nonetheless, this would be a good question to ask the insurance companies. Extra data resources should generally add new perspectives. Insurance data BONNETT, B. N. & EGENVALL, A. 2010. Age patterns of disease and death in insured Swedish dogs, cats and horses. Journal of Comparative Pathology, 142, S33-S38. BONNETT, B. N., EGENVALL, A., HEDHAMMAR, Å. & OLSON, P. 2005. Mortality in over 350,000 insured Swedish dogs from 1995-2000: I. breed-, gender-, age- and cause-specific rates. Acta Veterinaria Scandinavica, 46, 105-120. BONNETT, B. N., EGENVALL, A., OLSON, P. & HEDHAMMAR, Å. 1997. Mortality in insured Swedish dogs: rates and causes of death in various breeds. Veterinary Record, 141, 40-44. EGENVALL, A., BONNETT, B. N., HÄGGSTRÖM, J., STRÖM HOLST, B., MÖLLER, L. & NØDTVEDT, A. 2010. Morbidity of insured Swedish cats during 1999 to 2006 by age, breed, sex, and diagnosis. Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery, 12, 948-959. EGENVALL, A., BONNETT, B. N., HEDHAMMAR, A. & OLSON, P. 2005. Mortality in over 350,000 insured Swedish dogs from 1995-2000: II. breed-specific age and survival patterns and relative risk for causes of death. Acta Veterinaria Scandinavica, 46, 121-36. EGENVALL, A., BONNETT, B. N., ÖHAGEN, P., OLSON, P., HEDHAMMAR, Å. & VON EULER, H. 2005. Incidence of and survival after mammary tumors in a population of over 80,000 insured female dogs in Sweden from 1995 to 2002. Preventive Veterinary Medicine, 69, 109-127. EGENVALL, A., BONNETT, B. N., OLSON, P. & HEDHAMMAR, Å. 2000. Gender, age, breed and distribution of morbidity and mortality in insured dogs in Sweden during 1995 and 1996. Veterinary Record, 146, 519-525. EGENVALL, A., BONNETT, B. N., SHOUKRI, M., OLSON, P., HEDHAMMAR, Å. & DOHOO, I. 2000. Age pattern of mortality in eight breeds of insured dogs in Sweden. Preventive Veterinary Medicine, 46, 1-14. EGENVALL, A., HAGMAN, R., BONNETT, B. N., HEDHAMMAR, A., OLSON, P. & LAGERSTEDT, A.-S. 2001. Breed risk of pyometra in insured dogs in Sweden. Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine, 15, 530-538. EGENVALL, A., HEDHAMMAR, A., BONNETT, B. N. & OLSON, P. 2000. Gender, age and breed pattern of diagnoses for veterinary care in insured dogs in Sweden during 1996. Veterinary Record, 146, 551-557. EGENVALL, A., NØDTVEDT, A., HAGGSTROM, J., STROM HOLST, B., MOLLER, L. & BONNETT, B. N. 2009. Mortality of life-insured Swedish cats during 1999-2006: age, breed, sex, and diagnosis. Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine, 23, 1175-83. Vet Clinical data ANDERSON, K. L., O'NEILL, D. G., BRODBELT, D. C., CHURCH, D. B., MEESON, R. L., SARGAN, D., SUMMERS, J. F., ZULCH, H. & COLLINS, L. M. 2018. Prevalence, duration and risk factors for appendicular osteoarthritis in a UK dog population under primary veterinary care. Scientific Reports, 8, 5641. HARRIS, G. L., BRODBELT, D., CHURCH, D., HUMM, K., MCGREEVY, P. D., THOMSON, P. C. & O'NEILL, D. 2018. Epidemiology, clinical management, and outcomes of dogs involved in road traffic accidents in the United Kingdom (2009–2014). Journal of Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care, n/a-n/a. MATTIN, M., O'NEILL, D., CHURCH, D., MCGREEVY, P. D., THOMSON, P. C. & BRODBELT, D. 2014. An epidemiological study of diabetes mellitus in dogs attending first opinion practice in the UK. Veterinary Record, 174, 349. MATTIN, M. J., BOSWOOD, A., CHURCH, D. B., LÓPEZ-ALVAREZ, J., MCGREEVY, P. D., O'NEILL, D. G., THOMSON, P. C. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2015. Prevalence of and risk factors for degenerative mitral valve disease in dogs attending primary-care veterinary practices in England. Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine, 29, 847-854. MATTIN, M. J., BOSWOOD, A., CHURCH, D. B., MCGREEVY, P. D., O'NEILL, D. G., THOMSON, P. C. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2015. Degenerative mitral valve disease: Survival of dogs attending primary-care practice in England. Preventive Veterinary Medicine, 122, 436-442. MCDONALD, J. L., CLEASBY, I. R., BRODBELT, D. C., CHURCH, D. B. & O'NEILL, D. G. 2017. Mortality due to trauma in cats attending veterinary practices in central and south-east England. Journal of Small Animal Practice, DOI: 10.1111/jsap.12716, n/a-n/a. O'NEILL, D. G., BARAL, L., CHURCH, D. B., BRODBELT, D. C. & PACKER, R. M. A. 2018. Demography and disorders of the French Bulldog population under primary veterinary care in the UK in 2013. Canine Genetics and Epidemiology, 5, 3. O'NEILL, D. G., CASE, J., BOAG, A. K., CHURCH, D. B., MCGREEVY, P. D., THOMSON, P. C. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2017. Gastric dilation-volvulus in dogs attending UK emergency-care veterinary practices: prevalence, risk factors and survival. Journal of Small Animal Practice, 58, 629-638. O'NEILL, D. G., CHURCH, D. B., MCGREEVY, P. D., THOMSON, P. C. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2014. Prevalence of disorders recorded in cats attending primary-care veterinary practices in England. The Veterinary Journal, 202, 286-291. O'NEILL, D. G., CHURCH, D. B., MCGREEVY, P. D., THOMSON, P. C. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2014. Prevalence of disorders recorded in dogs attending primary-care veterinary practices in England. PLoS ONE, 9, 1-16. O'NEILL, D. G., CHURCH, D. B., MCGREEVY, P. D., THOMSON, P. C. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2015. Longevity and mortality of cats attending primary care veterinary practices in England. Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery, 17, 125-133. O'NEILL, D. G., COULSON, N. R., CHURCH, D. B. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2017. Demography and disorders of German Shepherd Dogs under primary veterinary care in the UK. Canine Genetics and Epidemiology, 4, 7. O'NEILL, D. G., DARWENT, E. C., CHURCH, D. B. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2016. Demography and health of Pugs under primary veterinary care in England. Canine Genetics and Epidemiology, 3, 1-12. O'NEILL, D. G., DARWENT, E. C., CHURCH, D. B. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2017. Border Terriers under primary veterinary care in England: demography and disorders. Canine Genetics and Epidemiology, 4, 15. O'NEILL, D. G., ELLIOTT, J., CHURCH, D. B., MCGREEVY, P. D., THOMSON, P. C. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2013. Chronic kidney disease in dogs in UK veterinary practices: prevalence, risk factors, and survival. Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine, 27,814-821. O'NEILL, D. G., GOSTELOW, R., ORME, C., CHURCH, D. B., NIESSEN, S. J. M., VERHEYEN, K. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2016. Epidemiology of diabetes mellitus among 193,435 cats attending primary-care veterinary practices in England. Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine, 30, 964-972. O'NEILL, D. G., JACKSON, C., GUY, J. H., CHURCH, D. B., MCGREEVY, P. D., THOMSON, P. C. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2015. Epidemiological associations between brachycephaly and upper respiratory tract disorders in dogs attending veterinary practices in England. Canine Genetics and Epidemiology, 2, 10. O'NEILL, D. G., LEE, M. M., BRODBELT, D. C., CHURCH, D. B. & SANCHEZ, R. F. 2017. Corneal ulcerative disease in dogs under primary veterinary care in England: epidemiology and clinical management. Canine Genetics and Epidemiology, 4, 5. O'NEILL, D. G., MEESON, R. L., SHERIDAN, A., CHURCH, D. B. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2016. The epidemiology of patellar luxation in dogs attending primary-care veterinary practices in England. Canine Genetics and Epidemiology, 3, 1-12. O'NEILL, D. G., O'SULLIVAN, A. M., MANSON, E. A., CHURCH, D. B., BOAG, A. K., MCGREEVY, P. D. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2017. Canine dystocia in 50 UK first-opinion emergency-care veterinary practices: prevalence and risk factors. Veterinary Record, 181. O'NEILL, D. G., RIDDELL, A., CHURCH, D. B., OWEN, L., BRODBELT, D. C. & HALL, J. L. 2017. Urinary incontinence in bitches under primary veterinary care in England: prevalence and risk factors. Journal of Small Animal Practice, 58, 685-693. O'NEILL, D. G., SCUDDER, C., FAIRE, J. M., CHURCH, D. B., MCGREEVY, P. D., THOMSON, P. C. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2016. Epidemiology of hyperadrenocorticism among 210,824 dogs attending primary-care veterinary practices in the UK from 2009 to 2014. Journal of Small Animal Practice, 57, 365-373. O'NEILL, D. G., SEAH, W. Y., CHURCH, D. B. & BRODBELT, D. C. 2017. Rottweilers under primary veterinary care in the UK: demography, mortality and disorders. Canine Genetics and Epidemiology, 4, 13. SANCHIS-MORA, S., PELLIGAND, L., THOMAS, C. L., VOLK, H. A., ABEYESINGHE, S. M., BRODBELT, D. C., CHURCH, D. B., THOMSON, P. C., MCGREEVY, P. D. & O'NEILL, D. G. 2016. Dogs attending primary-care practice in England with clinical signs suggestive of Chiari-like malformation/syringomyelia. Veterinary Record, 179, 436. 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That's not what I meant. At all. I mean I should be able to look up all the dogs in my dog's pedigree, and the siblings and offspring and see what they have been treated for if insured. That is very different from studies of dogs based on insurance data. If you think about it, only a tiny fraction of dogs are tested and entered onto a kennel club database to create the EBVs. How much more worthwhile would it be if ALL the dogs that had received treatment were entered as such on a database?
Yes, I imagine there are significant barriers. The individual dog and its pedigree would have to be recorded and then that data released. There would no doubt be howls of protest from kennel clubs and breeders about the accuracy of the data and diagnosis etc. And putting together of the data in a consistent form across different insurance companies would be costly. Still, if we really want pedigree dogs to survive in the future in any form, hard decisions have to be made....
Hi again Julie, Here's what I've found: 1. The KC morality and disease data is only one small part of the available data now. The RVC has its PetCompass project and the University of Liverpool another vet-surgery-based data set. Some good research also comes from the insurers reporting in scientific journals, especially in Sweden. A professor of companion dog epidemiology is basically content with the available raw data, so to speak. 2. My vet points out that the KC data is not available for cross-breeds or non-pedigree dogs, and that the insurance information reported by surgeries is not at all as accurate as it could be. Hope that helps. Best wishes, Andy
Hi Julie, Now I get it. From the perspective of a current puppy-seeker, the tool you are describing would indeed be very helpful. It would in effect pull together most of the relevant health information, which at best is hard to find now, and to some extent depends on the good will of breeders to put a fair bit of time and share the information. And obviously the early death of a dog is a sensitive subject for all sorts of reasons. So, yes, the sensitivities, costs and complexities would be significant. You say hard decisions need to be made if we want pedigree dogs to survive. What decisions do you think those should be? Best wishes, Andy
Closed gene pools aren't remotely sensible. While we are currently playing whack-a-mole with genetic diseases in pedigree dogs, which has a limited shelf life as a strategy, it would at least be better to play whack-a-mole on a much greater data set! That would improve things. My other suggestion for legislative change would be to require the sellers of puppies to provide 4 years free insurance against genetic diseases. That would have a massively good incentive effect. Since the insurance companies would be incentivised to examine the data to accurately assess the risk, it should make selling good puppies cheaper than selling poorly bred ones.
Hi - sorry I know this is zombie thread. But reading with interest and wondering if you could offer any help. I have used to the COI calculator to calculate my puppies scores ( not yet taken home ) and was shocked to discover it was over 20% I’m really confused by the whole COI thing to be honest. The breeder seems great, health scores for parents are great and she breeds show champions for look and temperament so can see why some line breeding may have occurred - but for me ? Is this a walk away situation or is there more to it ? Thank you
Goodness, I would definitely walk away from that!! In fact, count yourself lucky to have spotted it before you've got the puppy and to be able to get out of it, to be honest. It makes me mad when people don't take COIs seriously - they are one of the most important things. They are part of protecting the breed, the legacy of the breed, and ensuring its future. Breeding in such a way as to increase COIs is breeding towards the death of the breed, and they do this for short term goals - just because they like the particular parents or want to use a specific stud, or think they know better or 'know their lines' or some such rubbish. For more information on COIs, have a read of this: https://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/coi-faqs-understanding-the-coefficient-of-inbreeding And this: https://www.instituteofcaninebiolog...C6Oy7FqhgPvlSZffh152ecWjKS8WOQs2BTswiPjJP3cDY The average COI for labs is 6.5%. You should be looking for a breeder producing pups at or below average. Our last litter had COIs of 5.9% in 2016. This year, we are slightly higher at 6.9% - but that's the very highest I would ever consider going. 20% is outrageous. Mating full siblings - a brother and sister - results in 25%.
Hi Sorry I am joining this conversation rather late. As per my previous post( Mast Cell Tumour diagnosis) I am keen to find out if there is a genetic reason why Toby has such an aggressive tumour at such a young age. I have contacted his breeder who was very upset and has informed the rest of the litter and previous litter but knows of no other problems. I have just looked at his family tree.His mother and father share a great grandparent and great grand parent. Is that usual or does it give him a high COI? Happy to work it out myself if someone could post a link to calculate. Many thanks Julie
Just realised I put great grand parent twice. To be specific they have the same great grandfather and the same great great grandfather. Thanks
