So my Gwenni is just 15 months. I have seen her twice now barge a dog with a brief grumble if a dog tries to join in her ball game with me. She retrieves her ball from water. Many dogs we meet do this , they have done it to her, so I don’t know if she is learning the behaviour? Most owners seem to tolerate this in their dogs and do not worry about it. I’d rather she didn’t do this and just asking what’s the best way to handle it? She is great with dogs generally, will play, greet nicely or back off if they are grumpy. Any advice would be welcome , thank you.
I would not be throwing things for my dog with other dogs around. Heck, if I even see another dog, I walk in a different direction....
That’s interesting Jo. I have stopped playing ball with her if a dog approaches, I guess sharing with strange dogs is too much of an ask for some dogs. She knows ‘finish’ cue at the end of the game, which helps. I used the ball as a distraction in the past to keep her away from other dogs, sometimes this was the fun reward or alternative that would replace her fun dog time. She only really ever retrieves from the water and mostly doesn’t have it on our walks. But it’s a good reward/ back up for other fun things I want her to avoid/ come away from. Sometimes a tasty treat just doesn’t outweigh the other fun ! Do you avoid all other dogs at all times?
Yes, I get as far away from every other dog as possible. I will leave exercise locations if I see other dogs around. I will go to great inconvenience to myself (walking far out of my way) to avoid other people and their dogs. I can happily say that my dog has never had a bad experience with another dog, as a result, and is 6yo now... Even in terms of training, I wouldn't be throwing things for a dog with other dogs out of control and around. It would lead to dogs learning to keep away from other dogs, dogs trying to run off and play chase with other dogs chasing them, dogs losing nice deliveries to hand and so much more poor training outcomes. I haven't yet found many dogs who would rather than a ball than a sardine, smoked mackerel or paté - most of the time, when people are not getting the results they want from food, they are not using food reinforcers which are a high enough value for the dog...
Thank you Jo, I have pate on her walks, salmon pâté too. Maybe I’ll give sardines a try but to be fair she’s pretty good. I think the ball worked as it was replacing fun with fun. I’m interested in what you are saying. I can totally see the merit it in what you are saying, there are definitely some dogs we avoid as they play rough and she has stopped that. Gwenni is an only dog and I thought playing with other dogs was good for her wellbeing? I can see how not having a bad experience is important, she was frightened by an out of control Alsatian today we came across all of a sudden and their owner told me it was all okay he just plays, Gwenni showed me otherwise by trying to get away as fast as she could. I can see how a very bad experience can be very detrimental or harmful for a dog of course but I thought generally dog interaction was a good thing? Interesting Jo , thank you
I understand not all dogs want to meet other dogs and you need to be respectful of that . I know you may not always know if an unfamiliar dog approaches if they are friendly, happy to meet or may show aggression. Most dogs are allowed to meet and greet each other , sounds like it’s something we should discourage? I know also some owners tolerate all sorts of different interactions. I can see it is therefore a little bit of a risky thing, but I considered meeting other dogs helped them learn dog communication? You’ve got me thinking Jo!
You can still recall the dog, use a marker word or click (the dog must first know what that means of course), get the ball out, as you leave the area where the other dog is before you throw the ball. You just need to ensure you are out of the area where the other dog is, before you throw it. If this is difficult, use a food reinforcer. And if things like sardines etc don't work, then I'd think you have a food motivation issue to fix... Not really, that's a human assumption and projection onto dogs. Many, many dogs are much happier spending their exercise sessions exploring the environment or training with their handler, than running riot with other dogs. Just like many humans are much happier walking through town without having strangers run up and hug them. It is not really natural behaviour for a dog to repeatedly meet many unfamiliar dogs. Dogs have evolved to live in small groups of their own kind and to know each other and have familiar other dogs they have relationships with - not to constantly have to negotiate meeting completely unknown dogs repeatedly. For many dogs, that is very stressful. And that stress can be quite subtle. My weimaraner, when stressed by another dog, for example, would move to the side, and eat sticks or ground or something inedible. On one occasion on the beach, she ate sand in this way after being harassed by a playful dog which wouldn't leave her alone and we ended up with her having emergency surgery as the sand was so much it would have caused a blockage... It is some weird expectation that humans have, believing their dog benefits from running around with other dogs and slathering over other dogs' necks to the point that their tongues are hanging out and they are exhausted.... I really don't get it. Then people wonder why they are not interesting enough to their dogs, don't have a reliable recall and why their dogs have become interested in other dogs over themselves.... HMMM... does not require a PhD to figure that one out! My dogs have all seen other dogs as an irrelevance - they will happily ignore and avoid them and if one comes up, will have a sniff, but really think they are quite boring.... Not really, it depends on the dogs concerned and it depends on the interaction. But to be honest, having run a puppy playgroup for many years now for baby puppies to have safe experiences: It is an art (literally) to mix and match puppies together, to know when to add a particular puppy, when to remove a puppy because they are at risk of feeling overwhelmed, which puppies mix well together, when a puppy's confidence has grown, how to enable a puppy to be able to retreat and get away if they want to, which puppy needs to be restrained with a house line to enable another puppy to grow in confidence - and so on. This is with 7-8 puppies in a class (so - a choice of 7-8 puppies as playmates) with only 2-3 on the floor at any one time. People simply do not supervise the interactions their own dogs have, in this way. And the chances of any two dogs that meet randomly out in a public place, being suitable or 'good' playmates for each other, is actually pretty slim - they would need to be similar sizes, and/or similar energy levels, with a similar desire to play or engage with each other, and with a similar play style.... The chances of them being a mismatch and unhelpful learning to occur, is very high. Letting a dog meet other dogs, every other dog you come across, is playing Russian roulette with your dog's temperament - sooner or later, you will (statistically) meet another dog where the encounter does not go well, for whatever reason, and you have no control over what learning your dog experiences as a result of that.... Instead, the ideal is that your dog has other dog friends - either dogs they live with, if you have a multi-dog household - or friends from training class or dog sports or other activities, where you know your dog gets on well with those dogs....
Thank you Jo for your interesting information and perspectives. It’s certainly not how many many people with dogs think and we are demanding a lot / too much from them. She did go to puppy school and she was the only one allowed to interact with all 7 dogs in the class, in small groups. We certainly need a new perspective out there on dog training and acceptable behaviours as a community. Most people say let them play. Forums like this are so helpful and important. Appreciate your time and explanations Jo, you’ve given me a lot to think about.
No probs - work towards having certain doggie friends that you arrange meet-ups with, if you do want contact with other dogs. And this doesn't need to be every day
Jo, interesting read and views. By default from my own experience over last 6 months I am adapting a similar behavior. Few dog encounters have proven real additive to our dog experience. Surprisingly many people misjudge their own dogs and character, or are outright inconsiderate towards other owners and their dog. If I can’t avoid other dogs I am adopting the position to wait by the side and ask owners to put their dogs on the leash while they pass. As a result the interest in other dogs is receding, aided that my dog is getting older too at now 17 months. In turn I am also getting more interesting plus a few more carefully selected dog friends and its win win all around.
