Re: How much and how many poos? Baby Amber went 3-4 times a day. Now at 5 months she goes 2-3 times. First thing, mid morning walk and at some point either side of tea. She is by no means like clockwork though. She's on JWB puppy dry food but I soak it, still just about on 3 meals a day but we're phasing it out and next week she'll be on two meals. I'm going to move onto JWB large breed junior at the end of current bag. I also have had the 'large breed' debate. In feeding terms large breed is 25kg plus. I expect Amber to be roughly 25kg full grown. I'd suggest very few labs fit into the 20-25kg bracket (that's not to say more shouldn't be that petite but I won't start the obese lab rant as ppl here are probably the owners that need my lecture). I've lost count of the amount if 40kg plus labs I see at work - of course there will be some very large labs who 40kg might be ok for but it shouldn't be 'normal'. Large breed food, as I understand it is aimed at late maturing breeds and help with slower growth rates. Slower growth rates are best for developing joints. So whilst I expect Amber to barely be a large breed weight wise, I can see how large breed junior would benefit her joints. I'm interested to know what others think though?
Re: How much and how many poos? Hmmm...how does the large breed food compare with regards to protein levels? I remember discussions about this before and it stuck in my mind that high protein may be less good for slower growth. I use a high protein food, but this was after Lilly's HD diagnosis. I have no idea if there is an evidence base for low protein although I suspect JulieT may know.
Re: How much and how many poos? [quote author=drjs@5 link=topic=7112.msg100186#msg100186 date=1407450409] Hmmm...how does the large breed food compare with regards to protein levels? I remember discussions about this before and it stuck in my mind that high protein may be less good for slower growth. I use a high protein food, but this was after Lilly's HD diagnosis. I have no idea if there is an evidence base for low protein although I suspect JulieT may know. [/quote] I must admit to being slightly confused now... are we saying that the lab is or is not a late-maturing breed? I am now working on the basis that the Lab is not actually a large breed even though Lily might well be over 25kg fully grown (she has been about 23.8kg for about 4 weeks now). Therefore I am going to revert to Wainwrights Puppy for the next few months rather than continuing on the Large Breed and see how the poo situation goes. Also, what does HD mean drjs@5? Sorry I am not familiar with all these new acronyms - to me HD means Hyperactivity Disorder or High Definition [quote author=teapot57 link=topic=7112.msg99923#msg99923 date=1407354493] Yes I put lots of bones in the slow cooker. cover completely with cold water, and cook for 24 hours. I add a bit of parsley and rosemary, plus carrot. Remove bones let cool then chill in fridge. Remove the top layer of fat, and you're left with a lovely jelly broth which I spoon over his kibble. I freeze some for the following week. I also do the same with a chicken carcass. He loves it.[/quote] Thanks for the tip - I will give this a go. Sounds lovely
Re: How much and how many poos? HP means hip dysplasia. It is a condition that a lot of larger dogs get, but also some smaller ones.
Re: How much and how many poos? Hi we feed 3 times a day and 3 to 4 firm poos. Meg is just 6 months and on eukanuba large breed puppy.
Re: How much and how many poos? Hi, Murphy has just turned 7 months old and he "goes" 3 times a day whilst he's out for his walks. However he's confined to barracks at the moment after having his paw pad stitched twice in the last week, so he's toileting in the garden and is only going twice (he doesn't like doing it there!!). He has JWB ocean fish junior food with salmon oil sprinkled over twice a day, with frozen carrot, broccoli, apple throughout the day, and stuffed kong with banana and kibble when I go to work. His poos are perfect
Re: How much and how many poos? I would not class a Labrador as a large breed and I have to admit that one of my pet hates is when people have or see a Labrador and call it a large dog. I understand that some of them can be pretty big but if you know anything about dogs you know that there are plenty of dog breeds that are bigger. To me a large breed dog is something that will reach an adult weight of OVER 40kg - and whilst some unusual Labradors may get that heavy, they are still not a large breed because they are not meant to be that big - look at the other end of the scale where you have tiny Labradors like my Penny who is 19kg wet! How can a breed with such variation in size be classed as a large breed? To me they are medium sized dogs. As I understand it, from all the reading about different types of food i did for Penny, feeding large breed food to a dog that's nt actually a large breed (ie. a Labrador) can sometimes be detrimental to it's health. I will have to see if I can find where I read that. I think the article said it can actually exacerbate onset of joint conditions. This is why I would never advocate feeding large breed food to a Labrador. This is my personal opinion.
Re: How much and how many poos? In terms of what you think a "normal" weight is for a labrador, it does very much depend... For me, I think labradors should be substantial dogs, and somewhere upwards of 25kg looks right to me - but always slim and fit. I know lots are lighter, and lighter faster dogs are how some people like their labradors, and of course I appreciate that. So long as the dog is fit and healthy, the rest is personal preference. I have not heard from any reliable source that variations in protein levels makes a difference to joint development. As far as I know, the main risk is over feeding and rapid growth (regardless of the source of the calories). There are some studies that claim to show as a myth there is any link between excitement levels and high protein diets. This makes sense to me, raw diets tend to be high in protein and people do not report problems with these levels of protein feeding young pups raw. In terms of large breed and medium breed kibble. Well, it depends what's in each one, doesn't it? For example, the main difference between Royal Canin large breed and Royal Canin medium breed is the addition of glucosamine and chondroitin in the large breed kibble (and very small variations in calorie and protein levels). But if one feeds Royal Canin labrador breed kibble, this is medium breed with added glucosamine and chondroitin - so it would pretty nearly add up to the same composition as the large breed kibble. So it seems to me it's pretty hard to generalise and say it is, or is not, ok to use large breed kibble.
Re: How much and how many poos? [quote author=Penny+Me link=topic=7112.msg100657#msg100657 date=1407660177] As I understand it, from all the reading about different types of food i did for Penny, feeding large breed food to a dog that's nt actually a large breed (ie. a Labrador) can sometimes be detrimental to it's health. I will have to see if I can find where I read that. I think the article said it can actually exacerbate onset of joint conditions. This is why I would never advocate feeding large breed food to a Labrador. This is my personal opinion. [/quote] This is interesting; (though there is so much information (or misinformation) on the internet about diet) I also have read something like this but cannot recall where. It is all a bit worrying... Lily is near the end of her bag of large breed puppy so I will buy the 'ordinary' puppy variety tomorrow. It feels wrong now to be feeding the large breed if the lab is a medium breed ???. But it is also really confusing what with all the variants of dog food available nowadays and that it depends who you speak to as to what is recommended in the shops... it will be interesting to see if the ordinary puppy kibble has an effect on the 'output' though [quote author=JulieT link=topic=7112.msg100674#msg100674 date=1407661623] I have not heard from any reliable source that variations in protein levels makes a difference to joint development. As far as I know, the main risk is over feeding and rapid growth (regardless of the source of the calories). There are some studies that claim to show as a myth there is any link between excitement levels and high protein diets. This makes sense to me, raw diets tend to be high in protein and people do not report problems with these levels of protein feeding young pups raw. In terms of large breed and medium breed kibble. Well, it depends what's in each one, doesn't it? For example, the main difference between Royal Canin large breed and Royal Canin medium breed is the addition of glucosamine and chondroitin in the large breed kibble (and very small variations in calorie and protein levels). But if one feeds Royal Canin labrador breed kibble, this is medium breed with added glucosamine and chondroitin - so it would pretty nearly add up to the same composition as the large breed kibble. So it seems to me it's pretty hard to generalise and say it is, or is not, ok to use large breed kibble. [/quote] OK. So it seems like just changing Lily's kibble might help with her poo situation and might be more beneficial for her physically - or not. She wouldn't be worse off? Therefore worth a try..? But when the pet store assistant says that the Canagan (for example) is very high quality protein so needs less to feed Lily, this is a separate issue to the large breed kibble issue, isn't it? Is the quality of protein critical, or just the level of protein in the food? I'll admit to being a bit flummoxed by it all still. I wish there was a Janet and John guide to dog food ;D
Re: How much and how many poos? Sorry, I'm not clear what your concern is. That by feeding the large breed puppy food you are feeding too much or too little protein? Wainwright's puppy food (turkey and rice) is: Protein 30%, Crude Fibre 3%, Oils and Fats 14%, Crude Ash 7%, Moisture 10%. Wainwright's large breed puppy food (turkey and rice) is: Protein 27%, Crude Fibre 3.5%, Oils and Fats 14%, Crude Ash 6%, Moisture 10%.
Re: How much and how many poos? [quote author=JulieT link=topic=7112.msg100735#msg100735 date=1407683427] Sorry, I'm not clear what your concern is. That by feeding the large breed puppy food you are feeding too much or too little protein? Wainwright's puppy food (turkey and rice) is: Protein 30%, Crude Fibre 3%, Oils and Fats 14%, Crude Ash 7%, Moisture 10%. Wainwright's large breed puppy food (turkey and rice) is: Protein 27%, Crude Fibre 3.5%, Oils and Fats 14%, Crude Ash 6%, Moisture 10%. [/quote] My initial concern was about the amount of poo my girl produces and there was a suggestion that: 1) Large Breed puppy kibble might not be the best option for her (for whatever reason which may or may not be poo-related and that Labs are not a large breed) and 2) that a better quality food may affect/lessen the amount of poo she produces. As I said, I was a bit at confused but the issue of protein has now been raised and I was wondering if the higher protein variant = a better quality food? Or doesn't it make a lot of difference, e.g in the 3% difference you mention above with the Wainwrights food? I suppose I am trying to understand the amount of change I might see when selecting a good quality food v. one that is supposedly not quite as high quality and, indeed, what constitutes a good quality food? Is it the quality of protein or the amount? I think I have dog food research syndrome - a bit like looking at too many insurance comparison websites ( :) and getting myself more confused than ever! But thanks for taking the time to help, I appreciate it.
