Molly turns 11 months this week. I know she is an adolescent dog, but her latest behaviour cannot be tolerated. Suddenly she turns into a mad thing. She is leaping up around me (and on her back legs she is nearly as tall as me) she then grabs the lead and all I can do is hang on for dear life. She doesn't attempt to bite, but I can easily envisage getting bitten because she is totally out of control. It only lasts a minute at most, probably less and then she is back to normal I think it happens when she's tired. So today I made sure we did our final walk before 6.00pm but it happened out of nowhere on a quiet suburban road. Yesterday we were on a green and I think she was triggered by the flapping carrier bag I was holding. Today I threw a handful of kibble on the ground to distract her, but that didn't work. I really need to get this sorted, and soon, if she knocks me over or bites me there will be no argument, my husband will insist that she goes and I would not disagree.
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour Unfortunately I can't offer any advice on this one. As loopy as Lola is, she is really submissive and a firm 'sit' stops her in her tracks. Hopefully someone will be able to give you the advice you need x
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour That is certainly a very unpleasant experience to have... You are not alone though. Have a read of the threads below, which are also about dogs that suddenly become terribly excited and leap and bite and clothes. There may be some situations you recognise and some advice that might be helpful http://www.thelabradorforum.com/index.php?topic=5097.0 http://www.thelabradorforum.com/index.php?topic=4272.msg51588#msg51588
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour Tina you are right,it's not safe or acceptable so massive sympathies but it's also not uncommon as Rachael has shown directing you to the other threads so don't feel it just happens to you .....I have to break a chain of behaviour with Dexter sometimes if he decides he really must go and see a particular dog on a lead ??? And food will do it but the initial get the attention on me ,particularly a while back ,had to be a piece of roast chicken shoved right under his nose ....then I can get 'a look at me','sit' or 'let's go' so throwing food on the floor could be a good distraction to stop her but I think you might have to up the value of the food to make it something extra smelly and tasty x
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour Many sympathies, that sounds horrible. Does Molly get time off lead? I ask because Charlie's worst behaviour was always linked to him not having enough exercise. I'm not saying more exercise is an easy solution, just sometimes a lack of enough can contribute to problems. Are you going to any classes or doing an activity with Molly? I know you spend quite a lot of time on training, but maybe as she grows up, she might need a more intense programme of training to tire out that teenage over active, yet still silly, brain! It might help if you trained a really strong alternative cue you can use - a cue for Molly to do something which gets her a great treat. I have two, neither is probably suitable for Molly as they involve jumping around, you want something quieter. I think you always use kibble for training? So this thing could be the only thing that gets her chicken, for example. One is "get the treat" which means a really great treat is going to be rolled, bounced, or thrown in an unpredictable way. He stares at me, anticipating having to dash for his treat. The other is to jump up and touch his nose to my hand held at waist level. He loves doing this for the sake of it. These two things can interrupt lots of other behaviour (not everything, but a lot).
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour Yes, as above - I would say up the value of the treats a LOT, then expect perfect lead behaviour. Don't go far from home at first and as soon as she starts playing up, go home. use the super duper treats (hot roast chicken, tinned salmon, sardines etc!) for some time until new habits are established. Lots of off lead excecise and brain work too. The answer is to be even more determined than your dog! All the best with it, you'll get there
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour Sending sympathy - I know you've not found Molly to be the sedate dog you were hoping for. My Molly is about the same age and while I haven't experienced exactly the same, she does sometimes grab the lead (and in the past it's been my hand!) and try to start a game of tug. This is becoming much less frequent as she matures. However I have done what JulieT suggests and cue an alternative behaviour and this might be worth trying. I've taught Molly to do what I call 'good walking', which is an obedience-style close walk - nose nearly in my groin looking up at me - different from the normal loose lead heel. So if she grabs the lead I say 'good walking' in a slightly high-pitched, jolly-hockey-sticks voice and she drops the lead and does this. Then after perhaps 10 yards we do a sit, she gets a food reward and we go back to ordinary loose-lead walking. Obviously you would need to teach this before you can use it when Molly is behaving excitedly. Initially when teaching this I used chicken as a lure, then as a reward, but now it's mostly just kibble. You may be able to think of an alternative behaviour that she already knows, but I think distraction with a tightly controlled behaviour might be the way to go.
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour Sorry if I've missed this somewhere but is she on a collar or a harness? Would a harness keep the lead out of the way? Also if you change to a chain lead that might dissuade her antics but if it doesn't don't keep on with it in case she damages her teeth...
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour You have my sympathies here too...we have a dog around the same age as Molly, and recently boy has he been pushing his luck! Despite HOURS playing yesterday, when I was trying to get some work done early, he had one hell of a hoolie which ended in him nearly knocking me over. In all honesty I expected a calming down of sorts about now, it is quite tough as these moments of naughtiness are a bit unexpected! :
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour i do symatise with you milly has knocked me flying on the beach and she does the same as yours jumping up and biting my hands she does not walk on the lead at all and goes out for very long walks but on the way back to the car she still pulls these problems do take a lot of sorting out good luck
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour Thanks to everyone who replied, I read through them all, including the links Oberon sent me and took copious notes. Forgive the following screed, it is the ordering of my thoughts and, as always, on The Labrador Site for those who will come after me. Firstly, you confirmed what I thought. This is normal teen age Labrador behaviour, and I don't like it, but that is normal too. I found today's article on Reactive Dogs very comforting, Molly does not fall into this category. I did have a 1 to 1 with a trainer last week. She has introduced me to the clicker. I had tried it before when Molly was younger, but realised I was getting it wrong and abandoned it as I felt I was doing more harm than good. We are clicker training "look at me" in an attempt to dissuade her from jumping on visitors and other dogs. I practise "Look at me" with hand signal, then C&T when she concentrates on me, in shortish bursts several times a day, both in the house and when we are out. It's success with other dogs depends on how close they are, but it is early days yet and as I'm very fond of saying "if you don't start, you can never finish" I generally have no warning she is going to throw a wobbly, but sometimes afterwards I can see what could have been a trigger, this makes it quite difficult to predict. My plan of action is. To avoid eye contact when she has the lead in her mouth. Not easy to do when you are trying to avoid getting bitten, but I reckon I'll try a sneaky sideways peek. Ignoring a whirling dervish of a dog whilst keeping you both safe is impossible, but I will keep interaction to a minimum. I obviously cannot let go of the lead when she does it in the street. I have sprayed the lead with bitter apple spray, I doubt it will have any effect when her blood is up but I figure you should give things a go before you dismiss them. We don't play tuggy games. I stopped that at four months. She fights dirty. Decides my end of the toy looks better than her and lunges at it with her teeth. Good way to get bitten. I have always encouraged calm. I stroke her, caress her ears and tell her what a good calm girl she is. I slip in the saying "Molly take a chill pill" as I hope this will eventually become something I can use. I have decided to talk to her and give her commands in a calm quiet voice, not the usual bouncy voice. She's a dog, for heavens sake, she can hear me when she wants to. She is not getting much off lead time at the moment because there are too many kids around, I cannot risk her knocking one flying, especially as she seems hell bent on earning herself a reputation as loony dog. Our garden is big enough for her to dash around in. I am booking her into a class for adolescent dogs when it starts again in September. I have always used kibble for training as it seems a good way of not over feeding her, however, for the time being I will up the value of the treats. She is mature enough now for me to use my eyes and hands on her body to decide if I'm over feeding her or not. She sends warm greeting to those who suggested the enhancing of her diet. My son and my husband are keen for me to try her on Zyklene. I think that is fine if you have a problem, like firework night, but inappropriate with a normal, healthy, boisterous dog. Sorry it has been so long, but it am trying to get it right. If any of my plans and conclusions are wrong for heavens say tell me, and don't beat about the bush about it I'm a big girl (actually 5ft 2inches and 8 stone) and I can take it. If you can see any improvements I can make I am all ears. Again, thank you. Tina
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour I agree with everything - and admire the methodical way you work through problems - but just have two comments/thoughts: I'm not sure dashing about in a garden, unless it's a few acres, is enough off lead time for an adolescent labrador. The difference in Charlie between no off lead time, and an hour a day off lead was really astonishing. Of course I have no idea what your garden is like, and you might be right, and I have the UK culture bias of "dogs must be off lead" - I know others cope fine with dogs mainly on lead. But thought worth mentioning. You can train Molly to play tug the right way. And it might not be unhelpful. Training tug properly involves a strong cue to stop pulling and drop. This would be helpful to you to have as you could use it to ask her to drop the lead. I think this came up before, and there was a video posted about a dog learning this. From memory, it was also in the context of lead grabbing. I'll see whether I can find it. Best of luck with it, with your thoughtful approach I can't see that this is going to defeat you.
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour That looks like a great plan! Really hope you can work through this phase with Molly Bear in mind I have not much experience with dogs, apart from our teenage labrador Benson, who is very, very active. Just recently found out his dad was moved on partly because he was too much to handle, and that was from the breeder! 2 things stand out, very much along the same vein as Julie, the exercise seems a bit low, off lead walking for us has been a god send, and I really, really could not manage Benson without it. We drive to a local huge common, and take him there for an hour, he loves sniffing around and it has been great socialisation. When his recall was a bit hit and miss we used a long line, combined with the clicker and that really worked a treat, gave me a lot of confidence too, he used to take off and I would be left looking at a brown spot on the horizon! Not much fun for me at all, and at one point became very stressful. Maybe explore a long line with your trainer? An average day with Benson is off lead for 2 hours a day, then he has lots of interaction in our garden and fields on top. The second thing is tuggy games. Currently Benson is really testing, we recognise he is just excited and playing, but he is a big dog now. Tuggy games allow us to insert a cue to stop, we then are in control of playtime, not Benson. I have no idea if what we are doing is right or wrong but we are muddling through. We have found using a clicker is really useful though, and now have one permanently on the kitchen window sill next to a jar of treats, one area he is bound to get excited in at the moment is the kitchen!
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour Can I insert a clicker into already learned responses? Is there any point in doing so? I am loath to complicate my life by having to carry a clicker wherever I go, as she does what I ask most of the time. Another thought, do I have a drunken dog? She is vacuuming up windfall apples, plums and helping herself to blackberries from the hedgerow. In the old days they used to run the pigs in orchard, pigs would feast on the windfalls which would ferment in their stomachs and you had piddled pork Loopy Lab, what would be new in that.
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour I think your planned approach sounds great but I would be looking for ways to wear her out mentally, and to make sure she has enough physical exercise (in a way that's safe for you). Training sessions will cover the mental part. As a clicker is totally unambiguous, consistent and precise it can be effective when you really want to get an important training message across. With a clicker the dog knows exactly what it's working for and knows exactly when it's got it right. But a well timed, short marker word is still pretty good. I'd just aim to be clear and consistent in what you're asking for and have good timing in your use of a marker word - that's the critical thing.
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour On a serious note, I have heard of a Lab that ate a lot of plumbs and became drunk, had to have veterinary treatment. I am not one for playing tuggy, though I understand the thinking behind it for control. I do think off lead running will help considerably, is there anywhere you can drive to where there aren't children? I have a nervous Lab (no 1) and so have to avoid children, we can find places. You don't need to take a clicker out with you, the clicker is to train the behaviour and is removed later, you can use a word instead of a click, like 'yes'. I am only 5ft 2" and 8 stone as well. No 1 Lab was a handful as a result of broken elbow at 16 weeks and I couldn't do anything with him until he was about 7 months for fear of the screw coming undone in his elbow, I can remember having to throw myself to the ground so that he had to drag me as well when he pulled towards other dogs etc as he was so strong. He is now, at 8 years old, almost an angel ;D No 2 Lab was an angel almost from the beginning All things pass and Molly will become and angel! Oberon was posting the same time as me and has a far better way of explaining.
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour We will be upping the off lead exercise shortly, but not only do we have children to worry about at the moment, but the area I will be taking her to has disappeared under a sea of tents and caravans as we are 'blessed' with a Folk Festival over the weekend Not only have we lost the field to run on, the shops are crowded, there is nowhere to park and there are lots of townies around who have no idea of how to behave in the country. They don't even know which side of a lane to walk on (facing oncoming traffic)! I don't let Molly vacuum up too many plums, rather I try to use it as a training exercise "leave it" but she does manage to snaffle the odd one
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour Hi there, I agree that you say it is unacceptable behaviour but it is also very normal adolescent Lab behaviour. I think most of us on here are either getting there, are there or have been there. So our empathy goes out to you. The only way through it is patience and training. I don't think medication would be at all appropriate as you should not medicate the normal. I think once you get to class and stick at class all will become clearer and you should get specific advice from your trainer to meet the needs of your dog. I also totally agree with the advice about off lead walking as an under exercised Lab is bound to have more challenging behaviour. I have a 6 month old bitch who is now testing the boundaries as I would expect her too. So I am also juggling managing walks, training class, time with her and the rest of my hectic life. Its a challenge but so worth it. I knew I would have this journey to get the amazing family dog that I know she is. Stick with it and Molly will be an angel in no time
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour I also had a Jekyll & Hyde dog at about that age. Sometimes we could see the signs of imminent attack and defuse it just in time, but more often it just happened like the flick of a switch It is horrible and I used to come home from walks covered in mud when she had been leaping at me, all fours off the ground! If she was on lead when it happened I could often loop the lead round a fence post and stand out of her reach until she calmed. Saved my clothes and hands! Fortunately there was never anyone around when it happened outside (it also happened at home) as I'm sure they would have thought I had a rabid dog on my hands! As others have said, training and time will work, but right now I bet you feel you don't want to take her out in case it happens. It's just another training issue to work through and you sound well prepared to deal with it. Good luck!
Re: Unacceptable Behaviour Only just caught up with this thread. I remember Bess jumping up wildly at a similar age, though in her case the trigger was clear it was if I turned around when she was on the lead. Because the trigger was clear it was relatively easy to manage, upping the treats and doing a little training session worked most times and she outgrew the behaviour in a month or so. Your action plan sounds good - have you made any progress yet? One thing I was picked up on at training class, commands should be at the same volume for praise as they are for 'leave' or 'off'. I was told my verbal rewards were too boring and I think there was an element of truth. Good luck it does get better when they have come through the teenage years. Alice
