Re: Neutering - age? wow! what a range of responses!! it would seem this is definitely something everyone has a slightly different take on... if he were a she, the spay would be a no-brainer... i agree. but everything i keep seeing for castration is confusingly muddy - right now, he acts fine, like a normal lab puppy (hyper, energetic, etc.) but as i have no issues keeping up with his energy demands (i work from home, flexible schedule, and loads of room outside), that isn't my concern... i'm not one of those who wants to castrate him to "make him calm." he met another male dog yesterday (older) and was initially curious - the other dog snapped at him once (not near him, just at him) and orion immediately submitted and went onto his back, and then he and the male dog were fine.... so clearly, we don't have an aggression issue. : i do know one thing though... if we DO castrate him... i will probably wait till he is older - i have real worries about somehow impeding his growth, etc. (growth plates, ligaments, etc. - several of you also mentioned this). our previous male lab was entire his whole life with us, and we never had a problem other than the odd humping of my best friend whenever she came to visit ( ). whew. a confusing and crazy topic for me. lol
Re: Neutering - age? Riley is intact as I've mentioned and has in the last three days alone submitted to being humped by.....a neutered female, a neutered male and an intact male! Humping is complex and not just a sign of too much testosterone
Re: Neutering - age? Good luck with your decision making! [quote author=Suthuncat link=topic=7689.msg107534#msg107534 date=1410003465] i'm not one of those who wants to castrate him to "make him calm." [/quote] That's good - because that won't happen. If you have the Happy Puppy Handbook, there is also a section in there about this. And about the behaviours castration might change, and those it might not, or will not. Calmness isn't related to a lack of testosterone. Unfortunately some, with excitable girl teenagers, might say! ;D
Re: Neutering - age? Our doggie daycare/walkers/dog minding people won't take entire (un-neutered) dogs over the age of 6 months because the other neutered dogs can react badly to entire male dogs, even if the entire dog is soft as butter. Where I live (Canberra, Australia) you also need a permit to keep an entire dog over the age of 6 months. Otherwise you can be fined. There is a very, very strong culture of desexing at 6 months. So much so that a dog that is not desexed is described as 'undesexed', as in 'not in the normal state of being desexed'. I always find these discussions interesting due to the wide range of opinions and also cultural differences. Personally I'd get a bitch done before her first season, in line with the law here, and a male at 7 months (stretching the law a little bit).
Re: Neutering - age? [quote author=Oberon link=topic=7689.msg107641#msg107641 date=1410036375] because the other neutered dogs can react badly to entire male dogs, even if the entire dog is soft as butter. [/quote] Yes, I really think this is true - and it is something to think about in a country where most dogs are castrated (that includes the UK) - and it is something to consider seriously. There isn't much written about it, although I've found a few things by Bruce Fogel. But it really seemed to be the case based on my own observations of dogs interacting with Charlie. Recently, I took Charlie to some professional dog socialisation and communication classes, and the trainers there absolutely think it is the case. Interestingly, they have entire male dogs themselves and were convinced that they could encourage an intact male dog to respond better to those kind of reactions. We'll see though.
Re: Neutering - age? I initially planned to have my dog neutered at 6 months, but was advised by my veterinarian to wait until 18-24 months. In addition to being a vet, he is a duck hunter and lab breeder. He told me I'd have a much healthier dog that way. At 14 months, my intact male is displaying no negative behaviors, except for perhaps marking every bush and tree in sight, but never indoors. He's as gentle and patient as he could possibly be with my small children, he never displays any aggression or humping with other dogs or people and he seems to have only friendly encounters with other dogs he meets. He is indoors, or in a well-fenced yard all day, except for an hour or two when we walk in the mountains. Like most labs, he's a homebody and doesn't show much interest in escaping and wandering the neighborhood without us. My sense is that intact males are perfectly happy to take a subservient role if there is an alpha human around and they receive plenty of training and exercise.
Re: Neutering - age? My vet wanted Hollie in at 4 months!!!! (We have changed vets) Did not mention anything about waiting especially as she has an inverted vulva She will probably need plastic surgery but we will wait to see if a season corrects it
Re: Neutering - age? Update Gypsy is to be part of a huge scientific research trial and will be spayed at 6 months. This trial will help to discover which age neutering is actually best for bitches. One positive for Gypsy is that it's a much smaller operation and quicker recovery.
Re: Neutering - age? [quote author=Boogie link=topic=7689.msg115246#msg115246 date=1412632205] Update Gypsy is to be part of a huge scientific research trial and will be spayed at 6 months. This trial will help to discover which age neutering is actually best for bitches. One positive for Gypsy is that it's a much smaller operation and quicker recovery. [/quote] I think that is really good. There does not seem to be much consistent advice on neutering age, and norms differ all over the world. What we need is better data.
Re: Neutering - age? [quote author=Oberon link=topic=7689.msg115250#msg115250 date=1412634622] [quote author=Boogie link=topic=7689.msg115246#msg115246 date=1412632205] Update Gypsy is to be part of a huge scientific research trial and will be spayed at 6 months. This trial will help to discover which age neutering is actually best for bitches. One positive for Gypsy is that it's a much smaller operation and quicker recovery. [/quote] I think that is really good. There does not seem to be much consistent advice on neutering age, and norms differ all over the world. What we need is better data. [/quote] Yes, and Guide Dogs are well placed to do the study as they breed their own pups and they are able to keep records of progress throughout ther lives. It's a 5 year study of 1000s of bitches. The bitches are being enrolled on the study over a 3 year period, this is their third year, I think. With half the bitches neutered at 6 months and half after their first season. I have to keep detailed notes and pass on lots of information. Her growth, health and temperamnet will be very closely monitored to discover any effects, good or bad. I was very shocked when I got the letter, but I am getting used to the idea. Some dogs are found not suitable, so she could still be one of them (inverted vulva etc, tho hers is fine) Her spay will be between 20th November and 4th December - so not long now! :-\
Re: Neutering - age? We will be facing the same decision in a few months, so I talked to a pet insurance company that provides coverage in N.America. Premiums are the same for a bitch that's spayed before or after their first heat. They have no data either way. Toss a coin??
Re: Neutering - age? As a vet I thought id offer my opinions into the bag. My opinion is if you're not intending to breed then neutering is a good idea. But I think a lot of vets have outdated views on timing. Scientific research supports spaying bitches at 6 months prior to first season in order to have the best chance of avoiding mammary cancers. After each season risk of mammary cancer increases. The surgery itself is easier in leaner, younger bitches which decreases time under anaesthetic and younger bitches have a smaller incision generally and recover faster. There is also benefit in spaying breeding bitches later in life to avoid pyometra, but pyometra can occur early in life too it's just more common in older bitches. There is some risk described of urinary incontinence in larger breed bitches if spayed early I.e pre first season but this affects a small minority and boxers worry me more. Entire bitches seem to have less risk of joint/orthopaedic disease in some studies but this is quite new I think. I haven't had Amber spayed yet, partly because I'm considering breeding and partly because I'd rather let her reach full size first. Think I'll get her hip and elbow scores done next year and then decide to neuter or plan to breed. I also think as I'm a vet I'm confident in my ability to manage an entire bitch. Some owners I encounter I would not advise my approach to at all. As for dogs, 6 months is quite a traditional stance. I think 6 months is fine but I would always delay in nervous or anxious dogs as castration can make some behavioural issues worse. Main reasons I recommend castration are: population control, less chance of roaming and getting injured by cars or similar and removes risk of prostatitis, prostatic hyperplasia and testicular cancers. Obviously it's up to every owner to make their own decision but I'd think the owners on here are more responsible than your average dog owner. Certainly there are very few of my clients who I would not advise to neuter their pets. Many people are concerned about weight gain post neutering and I advise all owners to reduce food by 30% post neutering.
