Re: Impulse Control The worst has happened with Gypsy - a poo, right by the door in the queue in a food shop! (I was SO prepared it was up, bagged, wiped up with floor wipes and the staff told within less than a minute, I even have a container for it in my puppy bag with charcoal sachet. Such are the perils of puppy walking - we are nearly always in 'no dogs allowed' area. But I will always be prepared for the worst and hope for the best!)
Re: Impulse Control Oh that is one impulse control you want to fix quickly. ;D She's only a little pup with such an important job to learn she can't be expected to remember everything. Mags you have to take Gypsy to these places because of her job when she gets older you can't stop and think about it. That's what I meant when I said to Angela just do it and see. I'm certainly guilty of imagining the worse so building up gradually instead of just getting on with it. My dogs surprise me in some situations. I'm expecting them to react in some way and they carry on like it hasn't even registered. :
Re: Impulse Control I agree Jen sometimes you just got to take the bull by the horns and not over think everything. Charlie is a rural dog but we decided to take him to a highly populated dog walking area in town that he had never been to before and on a busy Saturday, not a single problem, slack lead walking, dog sniffing many, many dogs, ducks, children the lot and he was a star. I think the more we think about it the more we translate to our dogs, just my opinion though x
Re: Impulse Control [quote author=charlie link=topic=8025.msg113238#msg113238 date=1411893925] I agree Jen sometimes you just got to take the bull by the horns and not over think everything. [/quote] I hope you don't mind me asking Helen, Jen - but does this mean that you are suggesting that explaining you don't get a "switch off" by feeding food is "over thinking" or are you referring to something else?
Re: Impulse Control [quote author=Jen link=topic=8025.msg113228#msg113228 date=1411890990] If I was you Angela Id choose a quiet time of day, fill up with tasty treats and go and sit outside a cafe. Don't over think it. Ok Dex gets excited by other dogs but I think he's ok with humans isn't he ? Just be ready to move if necessary. Or are there benches near coffee shop type places? Go and sit on a bench, tasty treats and watch the world pass by then try the cafe. Don't think in advance about the worse that could happen just do it. [/quote] Agreeing with `Jen's advice that's all, I think the build up to doing new things with our dogs can often make matters worse and sometimes just going and doing it can surprise us. I have lots of friends that just take their dogs to cafe's without food or training and it just works and maybe because they just don't think about it and neither do their dogs
Re: Impulse Control Well done Charlie. That's fantastic behaviour Helen ;D Your right Helen bull by the horns. ;D I also think impulse control develops with age obviously. This morning we followed a squirrel down the road. S&S were interested watching it but that's all. Last year when we saw a squirrel all they wanted to do was get to it. Now how do I transfer their developed impulse control over squirrels to people. ??? Fancy dress shop ? [quote author=JulieT link=topic=8025.msg113239#msg113239 date=1411894342] [quote author=charlie link=topic=8025.msg113238#msg113238 date=1411893925] I agree Jen sometimes you just got to take the bull by the horns and not over think everything. [/quote] I hope you don't mind me asking Helen, Jen - but does this mean that you are suggesting that explaining you don't get a "switch off" by feeding food is "over thinking" or are you referring to something else? [/quote] No Julie I'm not suggesting anything like that. What I mean is, personally anyway, I worry too much about exposing S&S to things when what I should do is not worry about it just get on with it. There reactivity is a good excuse but I need to get on with it. I totally agree with you on the not getting a switch off by feeding food and that's what I need a switch off. I need to worry less, expose my dogs more using food and then reduce the food to encourage switch off if I'm ever going to improve their impulse control. It's not the method I'm suggesting we over think its the doing it and what might happen that I over think. (Hope that makes sense :-\)
Re: Impulse Control When we got Obi he could not handle it when we did anything in his presence that involved being boring - watching TV, reading, iPad, eating dinner, sitting down on a walk....all were met with loud barking. So we taught him to lie down and shut up in return for treats. He is a billion times better now but he's still a sphinx 'on alert', waiting for his treats if we have food or are in a strange place. He definitely does not have a proper settle at those times. I agree that a proper settle is very different to 'be quiet/lie down' for treats (even if the treats are very spaced out) and definitely the gold standard.
Re: Impulse Control Last night I used your no switch off if there's food advice Julie. I've mentioned before I've always given treats to keep S&S near me at meal times since they had bladder infections as pups and would wander off and wee. They have always sat by me and since I trained the quiet cue been very good but always on alert for the next treat. Last night I told them to lie down, one treat between front legs then no more treats. They sat up in their normal position, I ignored them. It took a few minutes maybe 5 but eventually they both lay down and switched off !!!! ;D Impulse control developing perhaps !!!! ;D
Re: Impulse Control Haha, nice work, Jen! I think it just takes some fortitude to sit through the extinction burst. I haven't attempted it yet...
Re: Impulse Control Oh man ,I totally overthink things.....totally.Ive 'interviewed' the Cafe Nero staff to establish Opening Times (6.30 am ) density of patrons ( takeaway mostly until 8.30 am) appearance of other dogs ( hardly any.... Good for me now,but a shame really in the big picture ,More dogs should go for coffee in Dubai! ;D ) I was thinking a frozen kong when I conduct my experiment as at least he gets some time out of it....plus after a walk he should be a bit less full of beans.Until we really wracked up our 'look at me ' Jen,he did bark at some men if they stopped to speak to me....he's not bothered so much recently..... The weather has cooled down considerably now.....well 35 degrees at lunchtime is cool compared to the 45 we've been having :.....I can be out comfortably until 8 am...I'm gonna bite the bullet this week and go and sit on a bench up by the shops.....Ill let you know ;D We've also got Dubai Pet Festival 7/8 th November....I didn't even know about it last year,it's only round the corner from me.Id love to try Dexter out there..but I'm nervous about his reactivity on lead ...I've still got a month of work to do so I'll decide nearer the time....I'll go anyway before it opens to let him be around an 'event' and the energy of the set up....and see how it goes,such challenges in life hey?Getting out for a coffee and trying to get to a pet dog show :-[
Re: Impulse Control I decided I needed to practise what I preach. No I didn't take S&S to a cafe that would be too much and I'd have to walk along way to find one around here. : We went for our long walk later than usual when I thought there'd be more people about and more going on. I wasn't wrong it was like the M6. . First loads of parked cars to negotiate because of a fishing comp on the canal so we had to get between them every time a car came, the world and his wife were out on bikes, we met 4 dogs saw 6 and stopped briefly to speak to two people. I'm pleased to report S&S behaved impeccably. An observer wouldn't have thought there was a reactive bone in their body. :. Impulse control bring it on. [quote author=Dexter link=topic=8025.msg113291#msg113291 date=1411905232] I'm gonna bite the bullet this week and go and sit on a bench up by the shops.....Ill let you know ;D [/quote] For what it's worth I'll tell you what I'd do if I had a bench near shops near me. I'd go for a big walk first to tire them out. Then I'd sit on the bench, lots of treats for a couple of minutes maybe five if its not too busy and the dogs are reasonably calm (bearing in mind our reasonably calm is quite different to a none reactive dog). I would try to do this every day if possible building up the time and decreasing the treats. I'd practise 'look at me' when people passed close but if people were passing far enough away for no reaction I'd let the dogs watch. Once I was confident with that I'd try a different time when it might be busier. I would always be ready to move though before they had a chance to react if I thought it was likely. Now all I need is a bench near shops. :-\. and Julie or Rachael to give extra tips. I'm sure Julie has done something similar on Wimbledon common with Charlie and various distractions. I've probably got it completely wrong. : I'm sure Dex will be fine just keep breaking his focus on the exciting things. Once you've got him used to it then you can work on a settle at the bench. ;D
Re: Impulse Control That's great, Jen. It's really lovely to read that you branched out and it was a big success. Fantastic. [quote author=Jen link=topic=8025.msg113303#msg113303 date=1411910615] I'm sure Julie has done something similar on Wimbledon common with Charlie and various distractions. I've probably got it completely wrong. : [/quote] Not at all. I ask for a settle where I have a chance of getting one (if you can't get one, you can't reward it). Pubs, street carnivals, watching fireworks and so on are all fine for Charlie. Watching balls and dummies on Wimbledon Common and at training is a completely different kettle of fish - Charlie is way over a threshold where I could give him a cue to reward. There, I have a lunging, whining, mess of a dog who has to be tied to a post on a harness. I can't work on settle because it's just impossible to move him without reinforcing his behaviour. So yes, here I am aiming for "passive observer" and I wait for him to look away and decide to take food. Hopefully, over time, I can try for a settle but I'm a long way off. I used to try clicking for any reduction in excitement, and it did seem to work. But the trainer I work with now doesn't want me to do that, so I don't anymore.
Re: Impulse Control Gypsy is fine now in places she knows. Today we walked through the busy shopping centre, Marks and Spencers and B&M, sat in a cafe, then up the main street. But when we went into the market hall - new territory - it was nose to the ground sniff sniff sniff!
Re: Impulse Control [quote author=JulieT link=topic=8025.msg113305#msg113305 date=1411911099] I used to try clicking for any reduction in excitement, and it did seem to work. But the trainer I work with now doesn't want me to do that, so I don't anymore. [/quote] Do you think that's because of the 'no proper settle if food available' issue ? I suppose the c&t could encourage the excitement level. Although you are c&t the calmer behaviour the click ups his alert level again because he knows a treat is coming etc. a bit like on the kikopup video. I don't blame gypsy for sniffing in a market hall Mags. There's usually a fish stall and all sorts of smells in those places. A good place to get her used to I'd think. ;D
Re: Impulse Control [quote author=Jen link=topic=8025.msg113312#msg113312 date=1411912937] [quote author=JulieT link=topic=8025.msg113305#msg113305 date=1411911099] I used to try clicking for any reduction in excitement, and it did seem to work. But the trainer I work with now doesn't want me to do that, so I don't anymore. [/quote] Do you think that's because of the 'no proper settle if food available' issue ? I suppose the c&t could encourage the excitement level. Although you are c&t the calmer behaviour the click ups his alert level again because he knows a treat is coming etc. a bit like on the kikopup video. [/quote] I'm not sure - I might ask more about this. It's not quite the same as the settle I don't think, in the "mad excitement" scenario of watching dummies, I'm not trying for a settle, I'm trying for "passive observer" which means "it might be something to do with you, but it's not your turn right now". My cue for this state is going to be "not your turn". Eventually. : So he is going to stay alert, (and marking if appropriate), and I can use food. The trainer said that there wasn't enough variation in his behaviour to click, and we can't be sure of what his emotional state may be, that is, we know it's mad excitement but we don't know that he feels calmer when we might click - so we can't be sure enough to introduce a click. And it wasn't necessary, the results are turning out to be super fast even without clicking.
Re: Impulse Control I took a frozen kong the first time I went for a coffee with Harley and my daughter - worked brilliantly I usually take a hedgehog or rice bone with me now and she lies down to eat her treat As for the festival.......bite the bullet and don't overthink it. I took Harley to a huge festival with thousands of people and apart from the first few mins, she was brilliant on lead. Good luck
Re: Impulse Control I'd be interested in what your trainer says about why not c&t if you ask Julie. I can see why it's difficult to know what his emotional state is to make sure you c&t correctly. I can also see though why even though your going for passive observer not a settle a c&t could affect it. The click will automatically take his attention away from watching the dummies and I assume the whole point is for him to be able to remain calm whilst focused on what's going on ready for his turn. Also if his excitement levels have dropped the click could bring them up again as he's now aware there is a chance for treats. I'm just guessing obviously, sorry if I've misunderstood anything. It was the kikopup video that got me thinking about how the click ups their alert levels because a treat is on the way so for calm behaviour it's not necessarily a good idea to click. I've never thought of it like that before, just assumed you should mark the behaviour you want, but it makes sense when you think about it. I wonder if your 'not your turn' is a bit like I've trained 'wait'. I use wait to mean stay there but be ready. For example I tell Scott wait while Scout retrieves. He will either sit or lie down just behind me until his go then vice versa. Or we walk to heel I drop one dog off in a sit wait at the top of the garden, the other at the bottom then recall from another part either individual or together. I find it a useful cue for quite a lot of everyday things as well.
