Sam is passionate about retrieving , works really well even on blind retrieves and never fails to run straight back to me , sits or stand with a very earnest expression, but doesnt want to hand over . This used to be an occasional problem but I have to admit to it getting worse even though I have tried everything, I think : As I said, he never fails to come straight back , I say Dead but he wont drop into my hands or allow me to take the dummy . I have tried ignoring him and walking on , he then just carries until he feels ready to deliver and will then drop at my feet but surely this is giving him a choice he shouldnt have ? I have tried really tempting treats like cheese or sausage , not a fair exchange for him and am now at a loss . It truly is his only fault, maybe one I will have to live with , I dont shout at him, always tell him he is a good lad when he returns, its almost as though he desperately wants to give me the dummy but just cant do it ? Any advice gratefully received thank you .
Re: Wont hand over Sometimes it is very difficult to comment on a problem without seeing what is going on. It sounds like a man-made delivery problem to me the way you describe it, Kate. Maybe you reinforced Sam's grip of the dummy by praising him at the wrong time? Maybe he doesn't understand the cue 'Dead'. Have you tried some simple exercises inside the house of Sam holding the dummy, you taking it, praising him and giving it back to him? This is one of the reasons why I rate clicker training so much. It allows you to shape a behaviour and reward with precision. Any food reward wouldn't be used as an exchange for the dummy but as a reward for the behaviour you want, if that makes sense.
Re: Wont hand over I know it must be something I have done wrong Heidrun , he hasnt got a dominant bone in his body so he isnt trying to impose his will, so it me who is wrong and not Sam . I think I probably have praised him too soon and he simply doesnt understand . I will do a lot more work indoors with him and then in the garden too . Thanks for this, its not easy to see where you`re going wrong when you are inside the box, so to speak , more house dummy work from now on
Re: Wont hand over I would just try and sit with him whilst he is holding the dummy with your hand on the end of the dummy. Don't say or do anything, no cue 'dead' and no praise, just wait for him to release the dummy, which he will do sooner or later (the heavier the dummy the sooner he will release ) and that is the moment you praise heavily.
Re: Wont hand over your dogs are wonderful i doubt i will every reach your level of training, my son is away for the week so it gives me plenty of time to do some good training
Re: Wont hand over Just spent a lovely half hour indoors with Sam , I had saved some of his raw mince from his tea . Hoping I did this right ? Did a lovely sit/stay , threw the dummy , gave him the command Get On , he fetched it, brought it back , I help out my hands towards him , he gave back immediately so he had a little morsel of the meat and much praise and fuss . He delivered every time but one , which is excellent for him and each time, as he delivered, he had a tiny bit of mince and fuss . He enjoyed it hugely, probably because of the meat as much as anything but also for the praise, will repeat tomorrow and each day until he gets it right every time and then move to the garden , thank you for the advice
Re: Wont hand over Sounds good, Kate. There is one thing to be aware of though, one of the reasons a lot of gundog trainers will not use food rewards for retrieves - the dog might start to spit out the dummy in anticipation of the food. That's were the clicker training works so beautifully. Once the dog understands that it is the behaviour he/she offered at the exact moment of the click which earned the reward the dog will remember that behaviour and offer it again. Does that make sense?
Re: Wont hand over Yes, it does Heidrun , Sam gave the dummy to me really nicely but on the last delivery, he did spit it out, hummm , I think its time to arm myself with a clicker and make a concerted effort . At least he did about 19 out of 2o deliveries really well so that was a massive improvement , thank you
Re: Wont hand over I took Sam to the woods early this morning to do some training . I followed your advice Heidrun , threw the dummy , sent him off, he came straight back, sat in front of me but wouldnt release . I didnt take food because of the risk of him spitting the dummy out , so I just sat on the woodland floor right beside him , one hand gently holding one end of the dummy . I didnt speak to him, just stroked his head and eventually , I felt his grip loosen and he let go into my hand whereupon he had a massive ammount of praise . I didnt do too much as I dont want him to get bored but it did work and by the end of the walk, he started to release without me having to sit beside him for a few minutes , bring on tomorrows session and thanks for the advice
Re: Wont hand over An even better session this morning . I also realise that by saying Good Lad when he comes towards me , he thinks the job is over, so this morning apart from the commands, I didnt speak to him, just massive ammounts of praise when he did deliver to hand . We still had the odd refusal but its improving
Re: Wont hand over That sounds great, Kate. In the little video of Caddie retrieving the duck dummy I only speak twice to Caddie plus one recall whistle. Just the two cues 'Caddie back' to go out on the retrieve and 'thank you' which is my release command. Nothing else is necessary. And like you said, once the job is done you can give tons of praise.
Re: Wont hand over Thank you , am also wondering about changing the word for release ? Sort of wiping the slate clean and back to basics or would I just be adding a confusion ?
Re: Wont hand over Depends how easy it is for you to adapt to a new word. If you have always used 'dead' with all your previous dogs a new word might confuse you more than the dog. I know it would me.
Re: Wont hand over I have a new trainer who says we should use 'leave' for the dog to give the dummy; I have been used to saying "dead" for the last 30 years, but 'leave' now comes naturally ;D Stacia
