I've been having occasional mess on the floor in the mornings so decided to lock both dogs in the crate overnight to see if that helped. I've been doing this for a couple of weeks and decided to let them have the run of the kitchen again last night and the mess was back. How many nights should I do continuously before trying again? Clearly he can go the whole night, and i suspect part of the problem is another habit - he is reluctant to go out even for a pee - at anytime but especially at night! If I push him out and shut the door he simply sits and paws at the door to be let back in. Even barney demonstrating what to do doesn't make any difference. I have to go out with him which isn't always practical. Even after a night in "lock up" he doesn't want to go out. he'd rather stay sat next to me while Barney runs around outside. Even if I ignore him so he doesn't get rewarded with fuss. Then when we go for a walk we can't get past the first blade of grass without stopping for ages while he goes. I swear he has the bladder of a camel! ;D - there's never any pee on the floor and hasn't been for months.
Re: How long to make a new habit? I'm very interested in what the others may say about this. We've always crated Riley both overnight and while we're out but we'd like to start leaving him in the kitchen when we're out in the day and eventually overnight. He's 6 months old now. I wonder if the dogs view each situation as completely different though and being able to hold on while in their crates doesn't translate to the kitchen? We also have the same peeing in his own thing with Riley, if we just pop him out on his own he basically looks at us as if to say "well come on I'm ready" and we have to toddle out with him. We've probably made life worse as we had rats in a neighbours garden which poison had been put down for so I was loathe to let him out on his own in case he grabbed a poisoned rat. He doesn't yet pee while out on walks so I'm hoping the more confident he gets he'll just self sort to some degree. Hope you find a way through, will be watching with interest !! Barbara
Re: How long to make a new habit? I have had success with this in the past by switching rooms. Do you have another hard floored room (a utility room or hall perhaps?) where the dogs could sleep? The problem is that once they have messed a couple or more times in one place, it can be hard to break the association that it is OK to do it. I had a cocker that did this in the kitchen, and so I switched to the utility room, crated her in there for a week, and then tried without the crate. With success. If you cant do this I would definitely crate for at least a month before trying again in the same room. Pippa
Re: How long to make a new habit? Carole is your kitchen lino, or carpet-like? Our lab came to us fairly late in life having been kennelled for most of it, and while she has always been clean in the crate or on Lino, she will occasionally mess on carpet or even the doormat if we leave access to it! It's like they perceive it differently... On the subject of having to wait for dogs to empty bladders - have any of you tried associating having a wee with a 'cue' word or sentence? I always feel it's a little bit mean to teach dogs to wee on command (is nothing sacred?!) but it certainly does hurry things up!
Re: How long to make a new habit? Sam, the floor is a lino type finish - so hard and shiny, I've now come to the conclusion that he only wants to pee off territory - as soon as we get out of the house the first patch of green gets a really good soaking! Even if I go with him into the garden and use the "go pee" command which worked when he was smaller he just looks at me... But as he doesn't pee in the house it's not an issue really - I just do worry sometimes that he holds it so long! I've been continuning to lock the crate at night and there's no bother - he waits until his walk, a few more weeks and I'll try again with giving them the run of the kitchen at night. I also wash the floor with bio washing powder as a behaviorist told me it's the only thing that gets rid of the protein they sniff that makes the association. I've no idea how true it is generally but it did make a difference when I was first getting barney used to his new home.
Re: How long to make a new habit? Hi Carole - at least your floor is easy to clean then! I expect the bio powder makes the kitchen smell nice, either way I know some cleaning products actually make matters worse (is it ones with ammonia in, maybe?) Good luck with the next attempt!
Re: How long to make a new habit? Does he do it by the door? Or is it just generally on the floor? If it's by the door it may be that he's trying to get outside and knows it isn't the right place. If it is the same place every time perhaps you could do what you do with puppies and put something on the floor to create an association, and gradually move it outside? The thing I have noticed with Rocket, is that she seems as if she doesn't need to go, until she's had a run. In our current house she spends a lot of time outside so it's never really been an issue, but previously things were trickier and throwing a few retrieves for her in the evening often prompted some movement within. Obviously this isn't too simple with it getting dark early... Also when do you feed him? Putting stuff in often prompts stuff to come out. Maybe move his food earlier in the day?
Re: How long to make a new habit? thanks for the comments Rocketman - the fact that he can go all night in his crate and then refuse to go out in the morning, have breakfast then half hour later when we go for a walk will happily "do the business" shows it's not an urgency thing to my mind. I'm sure that once he's broken the habit it'll be fine so I'm keeping the crate locked until it's been a month as Pippa suggests then try again. Interestingly 30 (mindful) repetitions is about how long it needs a human to make a new habit according to research...
Re: How long to make a new habit? yes it's amazing how long it takes us to develop a habit.....that's what I blame my new years resolution failures on especially the getting fitter/losing weight ones!!
Re: How long to make a new habit? I am forever resolving to get to bed earlier. I work evenings though so forming a habit is difficult. I feel a bit defeated by the idea of having to do 30 repetitions before its a habit!
Re: How long to make a new habit? aw Sam please don't feel defeated - in humans it doesn't have to be 30 consecutive repetitions to work. The trick is to be committed to the change, perhaps short term setting something that is more achievable rather than where you "ought" to be will help. Also little tricks like setting a reminder on your phone such as start packing up now it's 30 minutes to bed time.
Re: How long to make a new habit? Thanks Carole Reminders always seem like a good idea when you set them - and infuriating when they actually go off!
Re: How long to make a new habit? Well the one month theory doesn't work - I left the door open on the crate the other night and there was a little parcel in the same spot.... locked in they stay!
