....Or putting it up, depending on your perspective.... Had a little set-back last night. In the spirit of the dangers of resting on your laurels, after posting on another thread yesterday how I had managed to deal with Simba's resource guarding issues that he had when we first acquired him, I've had to eat my words. Sigh. My boys are still here, home for the semester break. They stay up later than we do : and last night, particularly so. They started to watch a basketball game they had recorded earlier at around midnight, so there were various cheers and noises from downstairs that kept interrupting my sleep (and pooch's, too). Once the game ended, around 3 AM, there was much opening and closing of doors, water running, etc noises as they got ready for bed. Simba woke up and was whining at the door, wanting to go out. I got up and let him, thinking he might need to go to the bathroom as it had been awhile since he'd been outside (see next post on the "Labrador behaviour" thread :). We live in a split level, so there are about 5!steps down to the next level, and then to go outside you have to turn left and go through the kitchen to get to the door. But if you do a u-turn left at the bottom of the stairs you go down the next 5 stairs to get to the next level, where the boys had been. So Simba charges out of the bedroom ahead of me, goes down the stairs and before I can stop him goes down to the next level. Drat. Problem being that likely the boys have left some food item which they have not put away. I follow him down, calling him (ignores, of course), find him with his head thrust between the couch and chair. Obviously he's found something. Double drat. Previous night I was up twice due to him having to get up to vomit, he had gotten into something the day before. Don't want to be doing that again. All I can see from behind is that he is looming over my knitting bag and that there is a scrap of paper on the ground. I come up behind him, saying in happy voice (through clenched teeth) "Come on, let's go", but as I get close he growls. My options at this point are limited. I'm not going to stick my hand to find out and grab what he's found. I can't go for the collar to drag him away. Any kind of manhandling won't be pleasant. I pretty much have to let him have it. But I'm still not sure what "it" is. And the knitting bag is a problem...I can't quite see if he has his nose in the bag or past it, but there are needles, etc in the bag, I can't have him rummaging around in it. His head seems to be past the bag, so I decide I will grab the bag to remove temptation and then I could see what he was going for. I lean down and grab the bag and he turns quick as lightning and snaps at me. Now, he hasn't done this for a LONG time, and I was quite shocked, especially since I know whatever it was that he was interested in he hadn't even touched yet. My temper flares, I mean, it is 3 o'clock in the BLOODY morning so I yell at him, "Hey! That's enough!" with the scolding finger pointing at him - his turn around to snap at me has at least brought him out from the hidey hole and I take a step towards him to try to use my body to force him away and he makes a move as if to lunge at me but checks himself immediately. I go around him and make a sweep of the room, picking up the empty pop cans and snack bags and when I go round the couch I find what he was so intent on-a glass of melted ice and pop sitting on the ground by the couch. Picking all this stuff up I go upstairs to put it in the kitchen, he follows and then wants to go outside. I let him out and am heartily tempted to leave him out there but as the temperature is -20C my better self prevails. So, in thinking about all this in terms of what set him off and what I could have done better, I conclude (in the hopes of helping others who might be struggling with resource guarding 1. I can never assume that this behaviour will completely extinguish, in a dog who had learnt to resource guard as a young dog. Therefore I must continue to click and train for this on a regular basis even if I think he's "over" it. 2. Normally in this situation I would not have gone down there without at least some kind of food treat to "swap"....and in fact, often the sound of the cupboard door opening is enough to bring him up the stairs lickedly-split, when he has been deaf to "come". But because of his previous stomach upset I had been limiting his food intake, so I chose option B which was to find out what was down there, if anything, and use my charming self to woo him away. That never works, so don't know why I though it would, but hey, it was BLOODY 3 AM. Next time I am using my food treat, dicky tummy be damned. 3. Because of Christmas and the kids being home from University, he has had several successful food snatching episodes over the last few days. He obviously felt like anytime he went scavenging he would find something spectacular (items at various times over the last 3 days include 2 cups of cooked black beans, two full bags of dark chocolate covered acai/blue berries, pita bread, cup of sugar from the sugar bowl, various empty bags of chips, etc with enticing crumbs left and numerous kleenexes, etc from bathroom garbages as the kids don't close the bathroom doors). I think perhaps this is why he was so intent on the scavenge. 4. He was kinda trapped between the couch and chair, at least his head was, which probably raised his level of arousal. It's a bit discouraging, but hey, none of us have perfect dogs, right??
Re: Letting the guard down.... You are right Lisa none of us do,at least I certainly haven't..... Oh man that was a right saga for you in the middle of the night wasn't it? My clue about this is the boys being home and there being some successful heists in previous days.....he sounds like he's kind of got used to there being some delicious booty to purloin and he wasn't going to let you take him away from his prize. The Trainer I'm doing classes with at the moment has mentioned extinguishing behaviours and how the older the dog ,the longer it will take but with consistency you can be successful.Its come up in our situation In the context of Dexter whining so it's been quite simple that I ignore him until he stops...ignoring the behaviour you don't want and praising that which you do....not so simple when you are trying to intercept a food snatch though...I think you did what you could, like you say.....it was IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT !! In the course of your normal life you handle it successfully with a swap....your response was different so Simba's was? How many times do we talk about backward steps with loose lead walking ,recall training etc I think you should look at this on the same way.....you have consistently moved forward successfully this blip has come at a time when there are a lot of different things going on....Simba doesn't have pop and crisp snacks ( or the chocolatee berries aaaagh aaaagh aaaagh) normally left around to rile him up and the house will sound,smell and feel different at the moment with the boys back. Hope you aren't too fed up.....you'll be tired after 2 broken nights with him and that can make your outlook a bit grimmer.....little monkey,hope his tummy isn't too upset putting something else on your plate! Big hug x
Re: Letting the guard down.... Lisa, I have nothing more to add as you've already done a brilliant analysis and action plan, but you're absolutely correct that none of our dogs is perfect. I so much admire what you've done and continue to do with Simba- he's one very lucky dog Also, massive respect for getting your brain to function AT ALL in the middle of the night - I'm sure I wouldn't have done as well as you did in the circumstances!
Re: Letting the guard down.... Like Kath - no suggestions because you know exactly what you are doing with this. No way does anyone have the perfect dog, but you've got a pretty darned good one! The only thing I'd say is make sure you keep this in context (not easy at 3am!) Simba is a faithful, loving sweet natured dog, with just a blip because he had an unsettled start in life.
Re: Letting the guard down.... [quote author=Merla link=topic=9356.msg134384#msg134384 date=1420308539] Lisa, I have nothing more to add as you've already done a brilliant analysis and action plan, but you're absolutely correct that none of our dogs is perfect. I so much admire what you've done and continue to do with Simba- he's one very lucky dog Also, massive respect for getting your brain to function AT ALL in the middle of the night - I'm sure I wouldn't have done as well as you did in the circumstances! [/quote] Ditto
Re: Letting the guard down.... No perfect dogs here Lisa I think with rescue dogs we just have to take the rough with the smooth but we get there in the end and it doesn't really matter how long it takes. Just take a few steps back with his training and I am sure when your house is empty of children Simba will soon slip back into his routine and he will be fine xx
Re: Letting the guard down.... Wow, what an exhausting night. Totally agree with your analysis and plans. Only thing I'd add is that I hope your sons felt bad that they did not clear up their food mess as it ultimately put you in a very awkward situation.
Re: Letting the guard down.... The ones who I would be telling off next morning are the boys for leaving anything to tempt Simba, we had a an upset tum here just previous to Christmas due to our boys being home and leaving stuff around, I didn't think it Elsie or Betty's fault it was the boys and they were told so and didn't do it again ! I have had several rescue dogs and human aggressive ones to boot, you can only do so much but one thing I always found was don't challenge and don't allow them to challenge you. Duncan was our worst he food guarded having been starved so it was completely understandable we thought and we worked around it by always offering something nice if we needed to take something off him, a piece of cheese is always nicer than what he had managed to find.
Re: Letting the guard down.... I have no words of wisdom, but loads of sympathy. I think I'd have had a meltdown in your situation. From what I've read, I think you're doing a fantastic job, so try not to be disheartened. We all come across blips, whether big or small. You'll work out how best to handle it because you care. I think training might need to start with the boys!
Re: Letting the guard down.... As you know I don't have a perfect dog. Cough, leg of lamb cough cough!!!!
Re: Letting the guard down.... I agree with everyone else Lisa. Simba has improved and come such a long way thanks to you and your patience. A set back now and then especially under the circumstances is understandable. Your plan of action and why things went wrong sounds great. Anybody leaving anything on the floor or even within reach of the dogs in our house gets a mouthful off me I'm afraid. Although they still do it. :
Re: Letting the guard down.... Thanks, all....it is difficult at times, as I find this the worst to deal with. Having my dog growl and snap at me sets me back and raises all sorts of worries. Sigh. And it is true that I am sure the upset in routine doesn't help. Hate to say I'm kinda looking forward to my kids going back to University but truth be told, I am... :-\ The getting up at night thing is getting tiresome as well. Hoping I can get this nipped (hah) in the bud soon too. Yes, my kids have not helped the situation, they were apologetic. I do understand their difficulty, however, it's easy to forget the level of vigilance required when you are not around it all the time. But it's just so frustrating as I know you all can appreciate! Been writing this reply on and off throughout the day....kids all packed up and gone now and mainly safely home on rather dicey roads, so am relaxing in a quiet house waiting for hubby to come home. We are going to enjoy a quiet night tonight! Thanks for the sympathy and support, as always, it means a lot.
Re: Letting the guard down.... [quote author=Lisa link=topic=9356.msg134460#msg134460 date=1420325566] Having my dog growl and snap at me sets me back and raises all sorts of worries. [/quote] From a dog's point of view, this is a language - "it's mine!" Simba didn't bite you. He said "don't take the pop off me". I know it must be worrying, I don't want to play it down, but I think it is something you'll crack.
Re: Letting the guard down.... Thanks, Julie, I hope so, but it really feels like this is something that I'm going to have to manage one way or another for the long haul. :-\
Re: Letting the guard down.... Jake has never turned and snapped at my wife or I , But their is and was occasions were he would growl over food if we went near him this has almost stopped after 14 months of having Jake with us we rescued him at 18 months with no history what so ever as he was a stray . It could be just a time thing with you bonding with him i have a greater bond with Jake than my wife does and compared to months ago were Jake would give a warning growl while feeding on kibble in his bowl or Kong's filled with raw meat . I can now place my hand in his food bowl if he has kibble i can also give him a stroke on the head whilst he is eating a raw filled kong without him growling . I did place my hand near his food bowl yesterday whilst he was eating raw and he gave a little growl so i moved away so not a total success , But a continual work in progress . Now my wife despite me telling her off after returning from the shops with a new chew toy for Jake will play tug with him and he will growl a little as to say this is mine and when my wife lets go they chase each other around and play tug he does'nt come across aggressive at all really just telling my wife off . The same applies if my wife tries any of the things i do when Jake has food Now in the same room at the same time i can call Jake over and he will be quite happy for me to take a hold of the toy and even take it from him without resistance or a warning growl . Which is great for me more so when he found a dead rabbit in a hedgerow the other day as stiff as a board he took some persuading and i even had to open his mouth to get it off him , But not once did he growl or show any aggression .
Re: Letting the guard down.... My sympathy Lisa. You know you are doing a brilliant job with Simba - but training is NEVER done, so I guess you'll have to keep on with at and remain vigilant. If it's any consolation, I would never try to take a bone or anything high-value off Poppy without a treat to swap. She's never snapped at me, but if I get near her wihen she has a bone she sort of hunches up as though she is resource guarding, tries to eat it faster, and gives me a 'leave me alone' look. I'm with Julie - Simba didn't bite you; he just warned you not to take the delicious pop off him. Though I understand how distressing for you it was. Xx
Re: Letting the guard down.... I'm the same with training - I think they've 'got it' then ease off. Easily done, don't beat yourself up - onwards and upwards. And get those boys trained, pronto! With humans 'stop' behaviours are instant if the motivation is high enough!
