Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

Absolutely shocking , walk away quickly

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

Think everyone else has said it all far more succinctly than me.

Walk away fast.
Your pup is normal.

Just don't say anything bad about them to anyone you don't know really well. These people sound pretty malicious themselves.

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

Nothing to add as you have lots of wise words on here. Enjoy your lovely normal pup and enjoy a class that is right for you. She sounds just perfect for 14 weeks. Do we get a picture ? Emma and Meg

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

What awful people, of course your pup is normal...I have yet to meet a labrador pup with good impulse control...and if I did, I would be worried something was wrong with them!

Enjoy your pup and ignore those "so called trainers.."

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

Thanks everyone… my trainer emailed me back first thing this morning and she said she would be quite hesitant to say she has "red flags for aggression" but she hasn't seen her play with other dogs. We set up a training session tomorrow where she'll interact with the trainer's dog and a neighbour's dog, so she can see her play style, and teach me when is appropriate to intervene to get her out and make her calm down. I assume she'll give me a little better assessment of her potential "aggressiveness" then…

We're going to start teaching her a "too much" cue for when her play gets too crazy, and letting her play only on a long-line for now. That way I can remove her immediately (via the longline) when she gets too crazy or inappropriate and hopefully she'll recognize the cue eventually.

She also thought the new socialization classes are good classes to attend, sounded like she thought well of the trainer there (and perhaps not so much of these classes, although she was too professional to outright comment on any of the brouhaha between us). She also suggested that the "All Ages Pack Walk" by another company might be helpful for her to attend, as she would be learning to be with other dogs while in a more natural environment (going on a walk). However, it seems a big long for her at only 14 weeks (a full hour? … she's on the 15 minute age right now) and I'm a bit worried to let her out of my sight with people I don't know… especially as this apparently the "sister company" of the ones who scruffed my dog. Different people doing it though? I just don't want them thinking the same thing of my girl. Perhaps when she's had more practice at the classes or I've worked with her on the long-line more. I'll ask my trainer more about it though and maybe send her on one to see how it goes.

Here are some photos of the little "crocopup":



This was actually mid-yawn but you can see those Labrador crazy eyes!!

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

Ah, what a sweetie-pie!

I'm sure you'll find that everything is fine. Do try not to be anxious - that really does communicate itself to your puppy, and she may well get more wound up herself because her momma is giving off 'scared' signals. Easier said than done, I know! But really, your puppy sounds like a perfectly normal, sweet-natured, friendly labrador baby.

My boy Pongo (13 months now) sends licks and says he wishes he could come play with her!

Rosie

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

An hour's walk is much too long for a 14 week old puppy - you're right that 15 mins is more appropriate, plus off lead playing. The description of the walk as a 'pack walk' sounds very Cesar Milan-ish to me. Personally I'd stay away from those walks until she is much, much older (like 8 or 9 months or more) and I'd be questioning them about the methods and equipment they use to manage the dogs.

I think your puppy has zero aggressiveness. It's simply playful, exuberant energy typical of a Labrador pup. They don't know when to stop, that's all, and it's totally normal. Please don't be worried But by all means give her plenty of opportunities to play with friendly dogs of all ages, and definitely make the play a 'play, few minutes rest, play, rest, play, rest' type of approach

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

My dog was awful as a puppy with other dogs. You should have seen how she behaved to my dear old Labrador that I had - she bit him, knocked him down, made him cry; it was awful. And she was wild when she played with other puppies - lots of people told me I had a "real Alpha female" and other rubbish. :

Guess what??? Poppy has turned out to be the nicest, best-mannered dog you could wish to meet, with great social skills.

Believe in your puppy, and it is not necessary to take her to any classes at this point, especially not if they make you feel uncomfortable. Take her out and about, so she meets and gets to know as many dogs and people and new places as possible, but don't feel she has to go to puppy classes, unless you find one that you really feel is good for you and your puppy. She is very sweet, by the way

Who is the nice-looking older dog in the photo? She seems to be behaving very calmly around him...

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

What a beautiful little girl! I would have been FURIOUS if someone had scruffed my puppy - even moreso if these people are being paid by me and supposed to be experienced! Is your trainer a positive methods trainer, because I'd be questioning why she's happy to promote people that use these kind of methods if she is :/

As the others have said, try to get her out and about with any other dogs that you know. Mine are 5 months old and generally great with other dogs, although they do sometimes cross the line with some of the older ones and get told off. That's great - they need to learn the rules and do so best when another dog tells them they've gone too far with a growl. It can sound quite nasty to our ears, but if you keep an eye on the body language of both dogs, you should be able to tell if it's all good. In general, the older dogs that don't want to play stand very still with straight legs and ignore the pups, who very quickly get bored.

I wouldn't be worried in the slightest. Your little lady is perfectly normal. You should see how my two play together, and with their sister who also lives in our village. It sometimes sounds like they're trying to kill each other, but I've gotten used to the signs that say it's play - lots of bowing, taking turns being underneath, sneezing, yada yada. For when it gets too rowdy, I just tell them "enough" and they'll settle into a more gentle version - "bitey face". This was simply done by separating them when it got too much and putting one in their crate and one on the terrace. It literally took two goes of this for them to learn what "enough" meant. They're smart little monsters!

I don't have the opportunity to go to puppy socialisation classes because there's no such thing around here, and as much as I'm sure they can be useful, I certainly don't think they're absolutely necessary. There's plenty of opportunities elsewhere to get your pup to socialise with other dogs, people and other animals.

Chin up, and enjoy your little crocopup x

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers


Untitled by Elly Gold, on Flickr

My vicious pup Cupar. This was taken when he was about four months. The dark stuff in their mouth is dirt, the two of them have started doing the gardening.

I'm with Snowbunny on questioning your trainer. I have attended bad training classes and decided I will train Cupar on my own, I really have no confidence in these so called dog trainers. I believe anyone, including me if I wished could call myself a dog trainer, no qualifications required. Now thats a scary thought, I gesticulate and talk far too much.

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

Well we just got back from a playdate with my friend's grown Labrador (he is a fit 95 pound one, so quite big) and they actually had a really good play. Watson (the other Lab) was a bit boisterous at first and knocked her down, but then he settled down and they actually had a pretty good play. She was mostly fairly appropriate in her play (as far as I know), they did a bit of chase, sniffing each other, taking breaks. I think she was a bit intimidated by his size at first so she wasn't as !!!!!!!!! as she would be with another puppy. Towards the end she started jumping at his face and biting, which I interrupted. When they went to play again, she did that again, so I thought it was probably time to end it as she was getting overwrought and starting bad play behaviours.

She was miles better with one older dog than with eight other puppies and 16 other people at the socialization class we were going to. The photo of her with the older dog above is my boyfriend's family dog, Finn, who she has had a couple plays with (all much more appropriate than her experience at puppy socialization). They had big plays outside but she wasn't super crazy and was able to play with other toys around him. She will keep having playdates with him and with this other dog from today, so there's two older dogs she can have safe plays with. I think the one on one style or just a few dogs is a lot more suited to her play style right now, as she is still learning. The presence of so many other puppies (and being in a pen with 3-5 other puppies) is too much for her and causes the crazies.

It's nice to know that she doesn't *have* to go to puppy socialization - I thought for some reason if I didn't socialize her with other puppies, this was quite wrong and bad? But if she can make do with meeting older dogs out on walks, on playdates, and potentially in the dog park (we live about 5 minutes from a dog park, so we will be trying that out), I think she can learn to play nice without being so amped up that it's hard for her to learn.

We will try out the "Manners & Motivation" class (this is a different training company and trainers than the scruffing people) because it is meant to be training in a situation with other dogs, which we haven't tried yet. I think it could be quite good to try to get her to focus on training when there are other dogs around, because if there are treats involved, she is quite focused on me… so it will be interesting to see if she can focus in a class like this. It is drop in so no commitment and we can simply try it out to see if we're comfortable. If we have trouble, we'll just focus on meeting nice dogs in the neighbourhood and intervening with a "too much!" cue when she's too chompy or rude in her play (and I'll get my trainer to show me how to tell when that is happening). We already use "enough" in the house as her time out warning (if she doesn't stop what she's doing, she gets a "too bad" and a 10-20 second time out in the bathroom) so I think "too much" will be our cue. She should pick up on it quickly I hope!

And yes, I do think she is quite a pretty little puppy… thanks to all for commenting

Oh, and my trainer is positive reinforcement only - she didn't actually recommend these puppy socialization classes to me (we hadn't started going at our last session with the trainer) or recommend those trainers to me. They were offered at a pet store we really like who has great knowledgeable staff who promoted the class to us… unfortunately I realize now that was probably a bad way to pick a socialization class! The new classes we are thinking of going to (Manners & Motivation and possibly puppy socialization) are done by a trainer who is certified, and they seem like they can handle a rowdy pup… their description includes the line that "Our staff have exper­tise both in teach­ing dogs and in coach­ing peo­ple; no ques­tion is too silly, no puppy too zoomy, no res­cue too shy or too rowdy!"

The description for the socialization class is:
"Most dog own­ers know that social­iza­tion is a crit­i­cal part of early puppy train­ing. But few peo­ple real­ize that it takes a lot of skill and exper­tise to run a safe and effec­tive puppy social­iza­tion ses­sion. As rec­om­mended by Dr. Ian Dun­bar, we use our most highly trained and cer­ti­fied staff for this aspect of our train­ing pro­gram. We offer safe and crit­i­cal socialization/play-time on Sat­ur­days at 10:00am for pup­pies 9–18 weeks of age. Con­trolled play ses­sions take place on non-slip mat­ting and in appro­pri­ate groups. Also, we offer ‘pass the puppy’ as part of the class to help your pup gain com­fort being han­dled by a vari­ety of dif­fer­ent peo­ple. Please read the puppy social­iza­tion arti­cle from the Amer­i­can Vet­eri­nary Soci­ety of Ani­mal Behav­iour. Please bring proof of at least one set of vac­ci­na­tions for your first visit!"

So we may try this one as well… not sure which one we fancy for the first time we try it out. I also believe they limit the numbers of who can attend (unlike the other class, where it was a free for all bring all your pups kind of thing) and it seems like a better option. I think I'm open to trying it once… we'll see.

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

All that sounds great Glad you had the chance to arrange a play date with a sensible older dog - that kind of thing is excellent. [size=10pt](edited to fix incomprehensible autocomplete thingy)[/size]

The description of the socialisation class sounds good to me. Ian Dunbar is a reputable expert in the world of positive training. I'd give it a try

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

You absolutely don't "have" to go to socialisation classes! If they don't work for you and your pup, don't go. Trust your instincts on this one. Normal play with other dogs will be much, much, much better than a bad experience at so-called 'classes'.

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

To conclude this topic for anyone who is reading this in the future worried about their pup… I phoned up the new training program I'm interested in, told them what Maisie was doing in the classes (whining, biting when picked up sometimes, running around like a crazy one sometimes and sometimes biting in her play too much, basically just over-exuberant play). We discussed which program would be the best fit for her and then she asked what type of dog I had… when I said labrador she laughed and goes "oh of course, that's why! Should've asked sooner!"

So I do not have a malicious puppy with horrible impulse control… I just have an exuberant labrador! Whew. A relief to talk to someone who knows what they're doing.

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

[quote author=Rosie link=topic=9551.msg137873#msg137873 date=1421613923]
You absolutely don't "have" to go to socialisation classes! If they don't work for you and your pup, don't go. Trust your instincts on this one. Normal play with other dogs will be much, much, much better than a bad experience at so-called 'classes'.
[/quote]

We gave up on our puppy classes...nothing wrong with our trainer..she is great! Just felt embarrassed by our huge, awkward and stir crazy puppy! Couldn't get anywhere with him, went into hyperdrive during every class... : :

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

[quote author=maisiesmomma link=topic=9551.msg138107#msg138107 date=1421702647]
To conclude this topic for anyone who is reading this in the future worried about their pup… I phoned up the new training program I'm interested in, told them what Maisie was doing in the classes (whining, biting when picked up sometimes, running around like a crazy one sometimes and sometimes biting in her play too much, basically just over-exuberant play). We discussed which program would be the best fit for her and then she asked what type of dog I had… when I said labrador she laughed and goes "oh of course, that's why! Should've asked sooner!"

So I do not have a malicious puppy with horrible impulse control… I just have an exuberant labrador! Whew. A relief to talk to someone who knows what they're doing.
[/quote]


Exactly! Welcome to the club. We are all ready to share our stories of crocopups, crazydogs, tiggerpaws, hooligan adolescents and all.... all our beautiful, lovely labradors without a malicious bone in their gorgeous bodies. See you on the forum!

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

[quote author=maisiesmomma link=topic=9551.msg138107#msg138107 date=1421702647]
So I do not have a malicious puppy with horrible impulse control… I just have an exuberant labrador! Whew. A relief to talk to someone who knows what they're doing.
[/quote]

Exactly - the diagnosis is........a Labrador!!!

So glad you have been able to speak with someone knowledgeable and nice.

 

Re: Awful email from puppy socialization trainers

[quote author=Oberon link=topic=9551.msg138128#msg138128 date=1421705493]
Exactly - the diagnosis is........a Labrador!!!
[/quote]

;D ;D ;D ;D