Hi everybody. I was wondering at what time did you start to socialise your pups by carrying them around places? I wanted Seren to just start to settle in and get used to being with me before I started dragging him all over the place to show him various things. We've been together 5 days now and last night he had his first trip to vets and it went pretty well I think. He was very clingy to me as was expected, I didn't make too much of a fuss of him while he was clinging, but remained calm and gentle, then straight after gave him his kong - filled with tuna spring water for the first time (he loved it) and told him how clever he was etc etc. At home I have been putting radio on at various times, using washing machine, dishwasher, all fine. Didn't like the hoover much but after a few mins was fine. Luckily have had a few men in uniform popping over the last couple days... he was a bit nervous initially but soon fell asleep. Also when out in garden has seen horses, birds, planes, heard cockerel and dogs etc. I'm not fussing over him if he's anxious but I let him know that I'm here if he needs me and give him the time to work through it, however long, and in between my legs if he sees fit My only issue is this: some stuff he finds a bit nerve wracking, obviously, and this morning I took him to the end of my pathway to look out onto the road - we're in the country and it's lane really where most of the time nothing happens! I did this yesterday for the first time when I knew there were no people or moving cars but this morning a car went past, then horses - made sure I had an ok distance from them but he was getting a quite shaky. Because I have to hold him before his vaccinations are complete, does this reinforce that there is a problem when he his shaky? Do I stop if he starts to shake? Or just remain calm and stand there? Or do I back off until he stops? I really want to make all the socialisation period a learning but also a positive experience for him but also don't want to mollycoddle him... It's no issue when I'm at home as I can just back off from whatever is making him nervous til at a safer distance if necessary, but I'm worried that next week when I start to take him on more substantial outings like the ones Pippa suggests in her book - what is the best way to handle nervousness when in my arms then, when there is potential for a lot of things to unnerve him? Perhaps it will be better by then as our bond might be a bit stronger? Any experiences/ideas please let me know! Thanks
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement I had Charlie out the day after I got him, and in puppy school 2 days after I got him.. I honestly think there is no time to waste, so get out there with your pup. . I'd say if he is already shaking at cars and horses it's pretty urgent. Try not to over face him, if he hasn't had much exposure at the breeder or up to now, but absolutely get him out each day to look at new things. I'm persuaded that it is not possible to reinforce fear - it's a old wives' tale. You can make it worse by being alarmed yourself, but quietly and calmly comforting your pup will do no harm (it might not do any good either if he is really fearful) so make sure that it's not all too much for him, but push on.
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Thanks JulieT - It's reassuring to know that by exposing him and him getting shaky I'm not reinforcing fear but what does "over face" mean?! :
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Hi, it means not to saturate him with the things he fears, but to introduce slowly and gently Too much at once can be almost as bad as doing nothing, so yes, start right now but take it slowly, its a big wide world out there and so much to see, smell and get used to . I also took my boy out and about as soon as he had his second vaccinations and even prior to these I carried him around and allowed him to play with vaccinated dogs . The experts say that we have a window of opportunity in which to socialise before our pups become too insular, so yes, start right now and good luck
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Exactly as Kate says. Just take in it small steps, but do get on with it. It sounds like maybe the breeder didn't take him out much, perhaps. Charlie came having a far bit of socialisation already done, the breeder had certainly held him in her arms by the side of the road in her village, and carried him up and down the street and so on.
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement I took Willow out from the day we got her! No time to lose, introducing her to all sorts of sights and sounds, people of different shapes and sizes, vehicles, hustle and bustle. All of it. She's pretty bullet-proof, although we're working on issues she has with some people in winter clothes - it was summer when we brought her home. We brought Shadow home when he was 14 weeks, and the difference in socialisation was obvious from the start. He was very nervous of cars, petrified by lorries and buses and he ran away from kids. These are all things we've been working on with some success in the weeks since, but it's been a lot more difficult than it was with his sister. So, get out there and show Seren as many new things as you can.
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Wendy 68 - haha! It just happened that in one day I had a tree surgeon, farmer, gas man and post man all pop over! All very boring unfortunately but good for socialisation purposes! JulieT - no I don't think he's had much socialisation already, apart from with children and farm animals - he's from a hill farm. I do intend to socialise him as much as poss and have checklist etc, and have started with things easy for me to do nearby, getting different folks to come over, showing him various animals, lots of household machinery and have been going out in all weathers, driving in car etc etc, which is going well, I just wasn't prepared for him to be so nervous and shaky, so it's that that I'm unsure how to deal with properly. Have just read on ASPCA website says that if a puppy is particularly stressed/shaking during socialisation then it's best to back off from the situation and build up gradually to the level of exposure, otherwise it could make them more nervous, as it should be a positive thing. When he shakes he won't take treats, so I've been making sure when we get back from the thing that scares him that I positively reinforce, which is helping - extra special treat, cuddles, favourite toy and whatever. I think I'm just going to have to think more creatively about ways of gradually exposing him to certain situations. I live on a farm and I think I'm going to get the farmers to drive all their various tractors and vehicles passed my house, back and forth, and me and Seren can watch from the safety of the garden! Then I can get closer and closer til we can hang out in the main tractor barn together. It's a bit more complicated when it comes to a train station, or a high street or whatever, but I'll have to try and come up with something! Perhaps watching from the safety of my car, then building up from there? If anyone on the site has had experience with really nervy pups in socialisation and gradual exposure, let me know how you did it! Will post what works for me when I've worked it out...Thanks!!
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement If you can see the vehicles when they're not moving and engines off, that's a good start. Let him sniff around them if he wants. Next, have it running but not moving and stand at a distance looking at it - decrease this distance as he gets more confident. Then have it moving, again at a distance at first and then closer and closer. Shadow's number one fear was the bin lorry and I was lucky to find one parked up one day, so we went and looked around it. Just that one simple thing made a massive difference. Generally, of course, you can't control such a thing, but a few times I managed to see it at a distance when I was with him, so I sat him down and talked to him while we watched it work. He still tenses when they drive past, but he tolerates them, whereas before he would completely freak out. So, with trains, see if you can get somewhere that you can see them at a good long distance and gradually decrease it. Try to remain calm and upbeat yourself - if he feels you're worried about him being scared, it'll make him more nervous.
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Good advice snowbunny, thank you will try that out. Bitter apple just arrived in post too made the postman come inside the house and talk to me in front of Seren. I think the postman thinks I'm a bit weird...
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Hi My 15 week old pup Amber was sent into a real panic a few weeks ago about the sound of the recycling lorry. It visits once a fortnight so I had a plan every Thursday morning. We would get in a position where we could see it at a distance and built it up so now she is quite happy sitting on a lead by the drive watching the bins being emptied and then 'helps' me take the bin back from the end of the road to by the garage where it is kept. the bin driver has also popped out of his cab to say hello one day.
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement We were very lucky in that our pup was quite bombproof with new experiences but I would echo what the others have said about getting them out and about as soon as possible. We have a few friends with fully vaccinated dogs so we took her to meet one that we knew was very well behaved first and then introduced her to the others after that once she seemed confident. Try and introduce her to as many new people as possible, I used to go and sit on a bench in the centre of town with her every Saturday as otherwise she would only have met our group of 20-something friends and wouldn't have met any other demographic. She loved the attention!
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement We played different sounds on some app my daughter has and gave kibble when loud noisy ones, When firework went off whilst out walking ignored! (5 months) From first day home I would stand outside my house at school run, everyone of course would stop and stroke, worked a treat and only for 5 minutes x Also took to train station and fed as train went passed! Got hubby and sons to cycle round and fed, always ignores cyclists since x
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement I suggest a 'jolly hockysticks this is all normal' attitude. Get him to all the places you possibly can, meeting as many people, animals and machines as you can. The more he sees at this age, the better. If he seems afraid of something walk past it and away but also with the same relaxed attitude, no fuss for the dog, no comments at all - as that reinforces the fear. I used a baby sling for Gypsy as she wasn't allowed to have her paws down where other dogs had been until 16 weeks!
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Additionally, I also let Willow meet a couple of vaccinated grumpy old dogs when she was little, as well as younger dogs who wanted to play. She got growled at by the grumpy old man, Charlie (who is a small shaggy mongrel) and I think this helped her to realise that not all dogs can be bounced over. Their skills with other dogs are really, really good now. There's only one dog that I always clip my dogs onto a lead with when I see him, and that's a massive white Siberian Husky who has a really nasty streak and has attacked other local dogs. The owner is a bit of an idiot, but in his defence, he does always keep his dog on a lead when there's others around.
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Hi Sally, I am no expert but wanted to share my experience. Louis is now 12,5 weeks and have had him home for 3 weeks. This is what I learned: -- socialize as much as you can as soon as you can. I do not think you can do too much. I have been socializing to a lot of things and experiences from day 1, except for dogs -- which I started a few days ago and I can see it is already starting to be late....I know there is risk of parvo and other stuff when socializing but looking back I think I was too careful. With my next pup I am going to run a bit larger risk (without being stupid) as I can see socialization is so important. Another "barrier" to socialization is that given the parvo risk, you need to carry him around. Very easy the first 1-2 weeks but Louis is approaching 10 kgs and carrying him does not really work anymore. It started to become a barrier to me and did not take him out for socialization but finally decided to just let him walk around in low risk areas -- that said, stop while it is fun and he is not too tired. When you feel that he is still having a great time but have had a decent degree of exposure, make a break and go to a familar environment. Do another round of solialization later. I think few shorter sessions is better than one long one. -- usually he is quite uneasy at first exposure to something new but by the 2nd or 3rd time fully okay (for example, elevator, car and a dark hall way scared him first time but now he is a happy camper) -- I really tried not to reenforce his worriedness. I basically just ignored him when he displayed being uneasy. This was very hard. On the other hand, I give treats when he is showing confident behaviour. In summary: I am now fully convinced socialization trumphs almost everything - does not mean you need to take high risks but taking calculated risks and not being paranoid is the right approach I think.
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Sara, now 6 mo., was pretty easy to socialize to the regular things we run into on a daily basis. But there are still things we run into that scare her... forklifts at a friend's work, the barking dog that she can't see behind a fence we walk past, the lady 100m away in a black coat with a white bag, etc. But they get their cues from you and are very tuned in to your reaction to these "threats" . Getting other people to help you can work well. We were out walking in a park and a loud diesel maintainance truck was driving along the path. I flagged him down and asked him to say hi to Sara, whose head was sticking out from behind my legs. They played for a bit and now Sara isn't bothered as much by loud trucks. Whatever works
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Thanks everyone. Yes, we're getting there, slowly but surely. I'm setting up a lot staged things, like people going by riding bikes, drying my hair in front of him, playing unusual music/sounds, getting my boyfriend to drive the car waving at Seren which all seems to be helping. Plus I'm taking him on little "walks" and drives to various places with machinery and people and although he gets scared, as long as I keep it brief it seems to be ok. Strong scent is helping, tuna/sardines in kongs or nylabones... am rewarding him for good behaviour and ignoring nervousness and being 'jolly hocky sticks' as a poster put it! Funny, lots of people ignore him apart from grown working men, builders plumbers etc, who seem to go all gushy over him, haha! Next stage is introducing to dogs... Have picked out a couple of laid back dogs who are fully vac to start the ball rolling... i hope it goes well...
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement Reading with interest in preparation for bringing out puppy home! I too was thinking of using an old baby sling to carry the pup around to leave my hands free for the children, that way I can take her on the school run and so on - people will think I've actually lost the plot I'm sure! When I first read The Happy Puppy Handbook the first thing that occurred to me was that if I carried the puppy round everywhere, where would she go to the toilet?! I'm clearly going to have to put her down every now and again, aren't I?! Will I get to know when she needs to go or do I just make sure she goes before we leave home and hope for the best?!
Re: Socialisation and positive reinforcement When being carried, a puppy will instinctively hold it in. On the drive home when we picked Willow up (4 hours) she held everything in until we got home. So, unless you're out for many hours, you'll be fine with her not toileting. Just try to make sure she empties before you go anywhere with her so she's not uncomfortable.
