Louis (now 12,5 weeks old) had his last vaccine Friday and we are starting to explore the real world. So far we have been several times (10-15 minutes each time for walk, play, training, socializing) in the large, enclosed garden where the apartment building is. Lots of people of all sorts and kids and some dogs, so great for socialization. Louis really loves being outside to explore. As we from this week will start to spend more time outside in the garden and later in parks, trails etc.. Using great advice found on this site but still have a number of questions, I hope you could provide your thoughts on. Many details below but here are the questions: -- how do I socialize him with other dogs, i.e. how much exposure, what type of exposure and how should I behave? -- okay to use delicious treats for recall practice or should I use kibble? Afraid of making him too used to treats but also want to incentivize recall -- how much time should he spend on vs off leash? So far his is off most of the time to leverage safety response -- what is a good approach to train heel walking for a puppy? -- what is best approach to socialize him to other dogs? SOCIALIZING WITH OTHER DOGS He has met a few other dogs in the garden with mixed results. Often he is quite anxious and uncomfortable. I think it is because one of his first encounters resulted in the other dog "marking him" (not biting) because he kept playing with it. Since then, he has been a bit hesitant and prefers to be very close to me when there is another dog near. Last 2 encounters was better probably because one were a 7 week puppy so he felt more comfortable and secure. What is the best way to socialize him to other dogs? There are often people and there dogs playing in a near buy park and they are friendly dogs but playing can get rough. There are dogs of all sizes and breeds so he will have lots of opportunity but not sure if I should go for a gradual introduction where we keep distance and he just watches them play (I control that he does not get close) or if I should let things run their own course and let Louis and the other dogs interact as they want. Also, what do I do if he comes running to me to keep safe? Do I make a fuzz about him or do I just ignore him? In other words, how should I behave when he interacts with other dogs. RECALL A few days this was solid when he was paying attention, but often he did not pay attention. Last few days he is paying increasingly attention and recall is becoming more and more solid so will continue to build step-by-step. My question is: I am using delicious treats for this, is that okay? Seems like kibble doesnt excite him much for training. HEEL AND LEASH WALKING He is not on a leash much at this point outside. I plan to keep him as much off leash as possible as long as 1) his safety responds appears intact and he stays close and moves when I move b) we are in safe areas without traffic, dogs etc. Is that a good idea? When on leash, although infrequent, I do not pull him but if he pulls I stop and wait for loose leash, then continue. Good approach? Is it too early to start practice heel walking? Given the importance of this, I want to start and started this morning. I basically hold a treat next to my leg and let him sniff, lick etc on my hand while I say "heel, great heel, good boy". I do this just for 10-15 secons and then give him the treat and say release. Repeatinng this a few times for now. Any advice on for how to practice heel walking with puppy? I do not expect too much, just want to start building the behaviour and making it a habit. I also assume it will make leash walking easier if he learns how to practice heel walking without leash.
Re: Louis outside in the real world - quite a few questions and advice needed pls Sounds like you are doing good things. If you haven't gotten Pippa's book Total Recall yet...consider it. She walks you through step by step, and is very thorough in the proofing process. It will answer many of your questions. In my opinion.... High value treats when you introduce a new skill, and until you get it reliable...even a jackpot treat occasionally is good - and then fade rewards to lower value. If they don't know if they are getting a high value treat...or maybe no treat at all...they will work harder in hopes of a wonderful reward! Just do the fading gradually...and intersperse with something fantastic now and again. Off lead as much as possible, for the reasons you suggest...but always...safety first. You can also consider a long line for training. Pulling when on lead...your approach is good...stop moving when he pulls and wait for loose lead. Can be frustrating at times, but worth the effort (it's something we've been working on recently too! : _ I think everyone's opinion about acceptable heel position is a little different...so as long as you are getting a position you are comfortable with and can be consistent...just keep rewarding it. Most people will say, get a reliable skill before you give it a name so that you don't "taint" the cue....but again, you have to do what you are comfortable with. For me...I'm less concerned with a perfect at my side in step with me heel position, as I am with loose lead and pay attention to ME during any walk. I think it's Julie that talks often about working hard to get her dog to check in frequently as a default.... Socializing around other dogs, and instilling confidence is a work in progress. Obviously you want his safety to be priority, and his comfort as well...starting with dogs his same size and/or age is ideal, and work up to dogs that are gentle and larger than him...and excitable and smaller than him....vary his exposure, but always introduce in a friendly and calm manner...exude the attitude you want him to have in the scenario...he'll read off your cues both physical and verbal.
Re: Louis outside in the real world - quite a few questions and advice needed pls [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] SOCIALIZING WITH OTHER DOGS There are often people and there dogs playing in a near buy park and they are friendly dogs but playing can get rough. There are dogs of all sizes and breeds so he will have lots of opportunity but not sure if I should go for a gradual introduction where we keep distance and he just watches them play (I control that he does not get close) or if I should let things run their own course and let Louis and the other dogs interact as they want. Also, what do I do if he comes running to me to keep safe? Do I make a fuzz about him or do I just ignore him? In other words, how should I behave when he interacts with other dogs. [/quote] You obviously don't want your dog to be frightened by other dogs, but you do want him to interact with them - you can't socialise your dog with him at a distance and on a lead. I'd say not a lot of dogs at any one time - meeting one dog at a time is good. If you are not happy with how it's going, or you think the other dog is too rough, take him away right away. But so long as he is looking happy, leave them to it. If my dog comes to me for comfort, he gets it - I make sure I never appear to be alarmed, but if my dog needs to feel safe, I make him feel safe. [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] RECALL My question is: I am using delicious treats for this, is that okay? Seems like kibble doesnt excite him much for training. [/quote] It's fine to use delicious treats for recall and don't be in any kind of hurry to stop using them. [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] HEEL AND LEASH WALKING Is it too early to start practice heel walking? Given the importance of this, I want to start and started this morning. I basically hold a treat next to my leg and let him sniff, lick etc on my hand while I say "heel, great heel, good boy". I do this just for 10-15 secons and then give him the treat and say release. Repeatinng this a few times for now. Any advice on for how to practice heel walking with puppy? I do not expect too much, just want to start building the behaviour and making it a habit. I also assume it will make leash walking easier if he learns how to practice heel walking without leash. [/quote] You need to get rid of the treat - this is a lure, and won't train him. Don't introduce the cue "heel" while you are still using a lure. There is a good article here: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/clicker-training-heel/
Re: Louis outside in the real world - quite a few questions and advice needed pls Great advice, thank you both
Re: Louis outside in the real world - quite a few questions and advice needed pls [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] -- how do I socialize him with other dogs, i.e. how much exposure, what type of exposure and how should I behave? [/quote] At his age, the more you can socialise him the better. But it's essential that his experiences are positive, otherwise he could become scared of other dogs for life. You can't really avoid a bit of rough and tumble, it's all part of play-fighting and a dog learning how to be dog. A good way to know when rough play is turning into bullying - if Louis goes back for more, he's enjoying it If he backs off or runs for cover, he isn't. In terms of knowing the suitability of the dogs he is mixing with, there is no better way than asking the owner first. Any responsible owner should know how their dog well enough to know if they can cope with an excitable young playful pup. I was surprised how many said to me "hmm better not, he's a rescue and a bit funny with other dogs". And besides all that, get him to a puppy socialisation class. There's really no better way than to let pups interact and play with other like-minded pups. [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] -- okay to use delicious treats for recall practice or should I use kibble? Afraid of making him too used to treats but also want to incentivize recall [/quote] Definitely use higher value treats for the trickier training challenges. And mix up different high value treats to make coming back to you all the more alluring. [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] -- how much time should he spend on vs off leash? So far his is off most of the time to leverage safety response [/quote] As much time off-leash as possible, the younger the better. But safety first at all times, consider the environment and what other dogs are around. And maybe use a recall training long-line to give you a safety net. [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] -- what is a good approach to train heel walking for a puppy? [/quote] Clicker training worked really well for us to mark the desired heel position. The problem is how to handle pulling. Dead stops did nothing for us, she was totally impervious to them. At that sort of age, a dead stop just meant a great opportunity to find some rubbish to eat off the ground or find some grass or a bush to have a nice sniff around. About turns failed too, we think that turned into a game for her. Our trainer, a qualified behaviourist, introduced us to the reversing backwards technique which worked wonders, but it's not exactly force-free. So the moment the lead goes tight when walking forward, I start reversing. Before long, we got a beautiful response when the end of the lead was reached - she would stop, turn and look back to me, in anticipating of the reverse maneuver without having to follow through with it. And don't make the same mistake I made. I'm very annoyed about the number of books we followed that talked about teaching a puppy to heel. You just cannot expect such a young dog to have the attention span to heel for any more then a few seconds. It will take anywhere up to a year for a heel to build up in duration, and cope with distractions such as another person passing by or other dogs. I mistakenly thought heel = loose lead walking. But it simply never will for a very young puppy. In the meantime, my advise is to implement a zero tolerance policy for pulling. Pulling becomes self rewarding for the dog. I pull, I get to smell that lampost! I pull, I get to sniff that verge. I pull, I get closer to that other dog! Pulling is great! Everytime I pull something good happens! Once they learn that habit it's far harder to break them out of it than let it start. I found the trick was that you must never, ever let a dog get what it wants by pulling. You pull toward a lampost, we'll carry on walking right past. And so on and so forth. Take a few steps past it, turn around and ask them to heel a few steps back toward it - if they do, they can have a nice sniff. If they don't, rinse and repeat. I swear, try positive only force free training and see how far it gets you! Folk too easily lose perspective on this. What do you think stopping on a tight lead is doing? There's pulling, there's force. A dog chooses to veer off and pull, and it's OK. But we use a bit of pulling as a training tool to prevent future pulling, and it's not. Make your own mind up
Re: Louis outside in the real world - quite a few questions and advice needed pls [quote author=JohnG link=topic=9753.msg141274#msg141274 date=1422923728] [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] -- how do I socialize him with other dogs, i.e. how much exposure, what type of exposure and how should I behave? [/quote] At his age, the more you can socialise him the better. But it's essential that his experiences are positive, otherwise he could become scared of other dogs for life. You can't really avoid a bit of rough and tumble, it's all part of play-fighting and a dog learning how to be dog. A good way to know when rough play is turning into bullying - if Louis goes back for more, he's enjoying it If he backs off or runs for cover, he isn't. In terms of knowing the suitability of the dogs he is mixing with, there is no better way than asking the owner first. Any responsible owner should know how their dog well enough to know if they can cope with an excitable young playful pup. I was surprised how many said to me "hmm better not, he's a rescue and a bit funny with other dogs". And besides all that, get him to a puppy socialisation class. There's really no better way than to let pups interact and play with other like-minded pups. [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] -- okay to use delicious treats for recall practice or should I use kibble? Afraid of making him too used to treats but also want to incentivize recall [/quote] Definitely use higher value treats for the trickier training challenges. And mix up different high value treats to make coming back to you all the more alluring. [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] -- how much time should he spend on vs off leash? So far his is off most of the time to leverage safety response [/quote] As much time off-leash as possible, the younger the better. But safety first at all times, consider the environment and what other dogs are around. And maybe use a recall training long-line to give you a safety net. [quote author=andreasjuuls link=topic=9753.msg141129#msg141129 date=1422883650] -- what is a good approach to train heel walking for a puppy? [/quote] Clicker training worked really well for us to mark the desired heel position. The problem is how to handle pulling. Dead stops did nothing for us, she was totally impervious to them. At that sort of age, a dead stop just meant a great opportunity to find some rubbish to eat off the ground or find some grass or a bush to have a nice sniff around. About turns failed too, we think that turned into a game for her. Our trainer, a qualified behaviourist, introduced us to the reversing backwards technique which worked wonders, but it's not exactly force-free. So the moment the lead goes tight when walking forward, I start reversing. Before long, we got a beautiful response when the end of the lead was reached - she would stop, turn and look back to me, in anticipating of the reverse maneuver without having to follow through with it. And don't make the same mistake I made. I'm very annoyed about the number of books we followed that talked about teaching a puppy to heel. You just cannot expect such a young dog to have the attention span to heel for any more then a few seconds. It will take anywhere up to a year for a heel to build up in duration, and cope with distractions such as another person passing by or other dogs. I mistakenly thought heel = loose lead walking. But it simply never will for a very young puppy. In the meantime, my advise is to implement a zero tolerance policy for pulling. Pulling becomes self rewarding for the dog. I pull, I get to smell that lampost! I pull, I get to sniff that verge. I pull, I get closer to that other dog! Pulling is great! Everytime I pull something good happens! Once they learn that habit it's far harder to break them out of it than let it start. I found the trick was that you must never, ever let a dog get what it wants by pulling. You pull toward a lampost, we'll carry on walking right past. And so on and so forth. Take a few steps past it, turn around and ask them to heel a few steps back toward it - if they do, they can have a nice sniff. If they don't, rinse and repeat. I swear, try positive only force free training and see how far it gets you! Folk too easily lose perspective on this. What do you think stopping on a tight lead is doing? There's pulling, there's force. A dog chooses to veer off and pull, and it's OK. But we use a bit of pulling as a training tool to prevent future pulling, and it's not. Make your own mind up [/quote] I will continue the heel and leash training with a good balance between zero tolerance and patience. I like your point about the "self rewarding" for pulling. I can already see that happening a bit so time to stop it while its not yet a habit. It seems like not giving in when he tightens the leash but not yanking on it either appears to work well. He seems to figure out that a tight leash means that I stop and he cannot move further. Will need to find a puppy class so he can interact with some mindlike pups. In the condominum where I live there are many dogs but most of them are adults and many of them small dogs with fast movements. Louis seems to prefer other puppies or older larger dogs. He is like his dad
