Ok, I might be really unimaginative or something, but what are some good ways of interacting with Seren that don't use treats i.e. not C&T training, AND that can be done indoors... For house training purposes I've followed Pippa's advice of no food/treats for a few hours before bed time. I can't take him out (apart from wees etc) as it's dark, plus he gets a lot of run arounds in day so wouldn't want to over exercise him. He has toys he can play with in the utility area, and I often throw him a ball a few times (but when he gets it he likes to chase it himself or eat it, so he isn't bringing the ball back to me). When it's quiet time in the living room I will now give him a chew to settle him (some make him go nuts, but I've found a good one, phew!). But how can I interact with him/engage him with me in this evening time without doing "official training"? I've thought of hide and seek perhaps, but this is slightly tricky as there's not really anywhere to hide as his free to roam area is totally open plan and massively puppy proofed. Any games/ideas?! He's a smart little chap and I don't want him to get bored or frustrated, and I'd like the evening to be a good balance of free play time, quiet time but also interaction with me... Thanks all
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats I'd just use really, really tiny treats in the evening if you want to teach stuff... It is really important to have games to play with your dog though. When Charlie was young, his best game was to trot round the coffee table carrying a toy to lots of praise and "big strong boy!". : ;D You could try gentle tug (with cues for take it and thank you). Catch with a small soft ball. Massage. You can train settle without treats. Find it for a toy (although you need to start this with treats really).
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats Aha! Yes I'm glad you raised the tug idea - I've been told by a couple of collie trainers not to use tug as it teaches them to play with their teeth? One person said it overexcites collies too much, and another said it's a "dominance game" so you should never play it with a dog and let him win. Don't really believe the latter as I know people who play tug with their dogs and they're fine and don't really buy into the whole dominance thing, but it's interesting about the collie side. I'm thinking I'll give it a go though... so you play tug and all is well? I guess I need to look up how to play it properly with a puppy so it doesn't get out of hand... any tips? I hadn't even thought of playing catch! Not sure he'll get it at first so is there any way of convincing him to catch it and not let it drop to floor and then chase? Thanks Julie T
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats I've also started playing football with my boyfriend with one of Seren's balls which Seren seems to love - he gets right in there and loves joining in! Just need to work on the bringing the ball back bit... :
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats 'Through the legs ' was one we used to do when dex was little and we were playing with him......we'd hold it just out of reach and waggle it and he had to run through our legs to get it ...
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats We play tug with Harley - she goes gentle with me, but full on with hubby ;D
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats Well, I don't know about Collies... I play tug with Charlie after going to a positive gundog trainer who thinks it is absolutely ridiculous not to play tug with a dog. We also throw reward balls for them to run in to get (with a cue though) and any other game we feel like. I had to really learn to play with my dog after reading more traditional gundog books that discouraged it. I have to say though, I've no intention of working my dog - so there was nothing at "stake" for me. All the other dogs in the class work though, and play all these games and don't have a problem. So tug is not supposed to be a test of strength. Teach your dog to "take it" on cue, to only tug his end of the toy (so his teeth go nowhere near your hands!) and release on "thank you". And the tug game itself shouldn't be full on with your dog fixed in position pulling for all he is worth, move around a bit, gently swing the toy (he should let you) and so on. It's not about madly shaking the dog off the ground with his teeth....
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats Tug is a good game. It's a good way to teach a dog what it can and can't grab with it's teeth (no humans or clothing, only toys) and for teaching 'give' and 'take it'. Most of all, it's fun! It's important to play games with your dog (and also to make your training fun, like a game). You want your dog to think that you are a fun person to be around Hide and seek is another excellent game that dogs love. The football game sounds great too
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats [quote author=Sally C link=topic=9823.msg142452#msg142452 date=1423408383] I hadn't even thought of playing catch! Not sure he'll get it at first so is there any way of convincing him to catch it and not let it drop to floor and then chase? [/quote] Catch is a great alternative to fetch. Over enthusiastic fetchers put terrific strain on their joints slamming on the brakes (frisbees are terrible, as the dog leaps on his back legs), so it's not great to do a lot of repetitions throwing a ball. Whereas catch is different. The dog is still (great sit/wait training while you walk away) and you can throw the ball at a height for the dog to catch it with all 4 paws still on the floor. For it to be practical as a game, you need your dog to give you stuff though. You can clicker train this - or, at least, you can clicker train it for some stuff (my dog finds some items so exciting he won't bring them back until he's done 10 victory laps, but day to day toys and routine balls he is fine with). When my boy was injured, I taught him catch by starting with a throw of no more than a few inches, put it back in my hand for a treat, and so on. Now, it's a big outside game for him.
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats Julie do you have any tips on teaching catch? Maisie will sit/wait for me to throw things at her but has a hard time catching the toy for some reason (maybe I throw badly). We sometimes do a catch game with treats where she has to catch the treat in her mouth, she's fairly good at that one! She does return things although sometimes she gets distracted or bored during fetch and drops the toy but still trots back to me.
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats Well, I didn't have a problem teaching catch...probably because I already had elements of fetch. All I did was start very close to him, tossed him a small soft ball (he was injured at the time, so it was an inside game), and he caught it. I'd hold my hand out, and he'd give me the ball....I put "catch" on cue, then we moved it outside when he was better. I suppose, it might be best to first teach your dog to give you things, and I suppose you have to be playing with something the dog wants to carry - and those are key elements of fetch.
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats I heard that tug is apparently bad for puppy teeth or something but when my girl was teething she was tearing into her toys to rip out the loose teeth anyway so I don't see that me holding a tug toy would have made a difference! Tug is her favourite game and she basically comes up to me and hands me a toy to hold while she goes crazy pulling it. It's never done her any harm but maybe only a gentle tug on those little teeth so that they don't start playing too rough. We recently discovered that my girl also likes to play keep away with a ball. If you have somebody to help then just toss a ball back and to and let the puppy do all the work! Throw it low now and again and let them catch it and then cheer really loud and make a big fuss of them. It seems to the dog like they're way more involved with a game instead of simply tossing the ball away and making them fetch it. Fetch is a great game too but keep away is a fun alternative sometimes. Then, after 8pm we pretty much just snuggle on the couch until bed time... at 7 months old she's starting to take up the whole couch though! ;D
Re: Ways of interacting with puppy without treats Thanks everyone, some really great ideas! Have started playing tug gently using the cues, and it's working well. Sometimes Seren loves it, other times he's a bit 'whatever' about the whole thing and can't be bothered and just trots off to calmly chew, so that's great. Football still going well, and have started hiding toys under his towel and have got him to 'Find it'. Initially he just took the towel and looked VERY pleased with himself, but he's getting the hang of it now and loves it. It's so great to see him engaged/thinking and playing at the same time. Just got to work on the catch....
