just wondering what folk think... Was fumbling in my bag for the balls in the park this morning and yet again in that split second of non focus Brodick went from nosing about in the bag with me to suddenly sprinting across the park, about 300m flat out, and launching himself into a Squirrel Rampage. This is something to behold. As i think I have said before, he looks completely insane, sprinting from tree to tree, trying to climb up trees (hasn't realised labradors can't do that but he's had all four paws on and been scrabbling upwards before), tail going at a million miles an hour in that spaniel way, scenting furiously around trees, before sprinting off on a scent again. This can go on for quite some time, he has been know to do it to a level where when I eventually rugby tackled him he just stopped and lain on his side panting seemingly unable to move....i dont like him to do this for a few reasons, firstly his safety (the odd car will be passing through this bit, very occasional, and they crawl along as they are park workers so they know a lot of dogs running about, but still a risk) and secondly I dont want him to hunt unless I say so... so when this is going on, I have on occassion tried to recall him, I don't anymore as don't want to ruin his ever improving recall. I actually don't think he can hear me, I don't think its labrador selective deafness, I think he has such a red mist on, only his eyes and nose are working...if I rugby tackle him to stop him, its almost like snapping him out of an 'episode' if you know what I mean, he will be wild eyed for a bit then will focus back on me and then calm down... what I was wondering this morning was how on earth would (or could?) a Stop Whistle work when he is full pelt on route to a Rampage if he really doesn't seem to have any senses working apart from those directed at the hunt? Is a Stop Whistle too late once he has started to go? that split second before he goes where I could get any command in is so brief, managing these rapid bursts off are difficult ( I know the best option is not to let him anywhere near squirrels/rabbits, but everywhere I walk is dotted with them and no other routes near me...) dont want to try the Stop Whistle once I have built this up to trying it outside only to ruin it instantly....
Re: use/timing of the Stop Whistle Debsie, you have to find a way to be able to reinforce the stop whistle if he ignores it. Maybe a long line? What I also do when I can't give my dog my total attention, I put it back on the lead, even if it is just for a second or two. Prevention is always better than cure. Or in the words of a great gundog trainer ' It's easier to preserve a saint than to cure a sinner'. If you watch my little training videos you will rarely see me without my whistle in my mouth. Anything can happen and by the time you have fumbled around with the whistle around your neck it is usually too late to blow it, because the dog is already off a couple of hundred yards across the field or park. So, to answer your question, yes a stop whistle will stop your dog at any distance and whatever state of mind the dog is in, but only if it is trained and proofed properly. All of my dogs understand the stop whistle, so there should be no grounds for them to turn a deaf ear. They also know that the only time I get seriously cross with them is if they ignore the stop whistle, that's how important it is to me.
Re: Use/timing of the Stop Whistle and also views on Air Collars thanks for reply, and sorry for the late thanks, I didn't have web access at weekend... I have been using a long line with Brodick, I stopped recently due to a sudden and sharp entanglement between the line and my calf while he was legging it after his ball, resulting in a trip to the docs and antibiotics a week later after the line burn went a bit nasty ( you can imagine what Brodick's long line is covered in given his love of rolling in all things foul, and I was wearing shorts at the time!). I had got quite adept at avoiding tanglement too, yet another loss of focus from me... I was a bit put off them as well by a thread last week on another lab site where they were castigated from On High....but I think with dogs like Brodick they are very useful if used carefully and not when its busy with other dogs/people...I used a line again this morning and told him NO firmly and stamped on it just in case the minute he looked dreamily over at the squirrel area...he didnt bolt but he does know when he is wearing it , and behaves very differently! I'm very committed to trying to train and proof the stop whistle properly (think I struggle a bit with not having a garden, as some of the proofing steps can be a bit big sometimes, if you know what I mean, house to park is a bit big in terms of distraction levels), in the interim do you have any views on the use of air collars? the ones that deliver a beep then a blast of air under the chin? I would never hurt my dogs, but as far as I can see these just deliver a jet of cold air that snaps them out of that 'switched off' state and brings their attention back to you....I've seen these attract a lot of flack on other forums, but know other folk who have used them succesfully in a similar situation to mine...however if they are bad news I wouldn't use one! thanks for advice so far....
Re: use/timing of the Stop Whistle My trainer suggested trying this type of thing for Lilly - the red mist of the deer hunt as opposed to the squirrel hunt. They are quite pricey - the shock collars are sadly cheaper - but the ones I was looking at which were the spray type with remote control were £80+ and think they needed a bit of work before starting and also to be worn in the longer term too if I understood right. I decided not to get one - or indeed accept the kind offer that he could loan one to me. I thought working on the stop whistle probably a better option for me - not that I have really worked hard enough on this (as yet : ) Don't necessarily think this helps you. I suppose its another "aversive" all be it a mild one. My trainer sold it to me though as just something to break the run and the concentration to get back in control. I think our problem isn't so bad that I feel I neeed this and I se it as a "last resort". jac
Re: use/timing of the Stop Whistle Thanks jac. I'm going to give it a try with a borrowed one, and see what effect it has. I'm keen to only use it at that moment when B looks like he is losing focus and is about to launch off, to get his attention back on me and get him under control. So just as an attention grabber...I'm not convinced it will work long term mind you, I think he will soon work out that nothing of much consequence happens after a blast of icy air hits his chin other than he gets a bit of a fright, so getting him to obey the stop whistle will be much more effective...I'm finding the stop whistle a little challenging I have to say, I'm too impatient though, having to make myself go through it stage by stageand not moving until we have nailed each stage...
Re: use/timing of the Stop Whistle I think the stop whistle is the way to go, long term. But it is a long slog to get there! Mind you, a neighbour of mine has a lovely black labrador bitch, three years old, who was completely untrained and out of control until recently. The (very nice) lady's husband left her, and she was left dealing with two toddlers, a sick mother, and a rather wild young dog... Eventually she called in a trainer, who got her to use a 'vibrating' collar (no electric shock, just a battery driven vibration) - this really seems to have helped. She now walks to heel, and comes back when called. I think it truly is just an aid, and only to be used in a situation like this where my lovely neighbour simply did not have the time and/or determination to make her normal training work. Mind you, Paulina always came back to me, anyway, I think because I use the whistle and because I always give her a treat when she comes back. And because I dont just then put her on the lead and take her home, but sometimes just reward her for coming back and then let her go off playing with Pops again.
Re: use/timing of the Stop Whistle thanks Karen, yes I'm having to really curb my impatient, I want-to-achieve-this-RIGHT-now side since getting my two pups! Mind you Cuillin has always been a dream to train, very easy, quick to learn, she can be a bit stubborn sometimes but that's about it. Brodick, bless him, has presented me with a different challenge! having said that his only issue (apart from counter surfing ) is this huge desire to chase wildlife. Other than that he really is a lovely natured, cheery, sweet, and very good boy, his recall is brilliant anywhere other than areas inhabited by furry things that run, and he is often complemented for being so calm and well behaved in public, bless him. he's has been easy to train in most other aspects too, this is his sticking point it seems! so I just need to knuckle down and keep focused on the Stop Whistle Training, baby steps, baby steps
