Bruno, now ten months is a dream, a lot of issues but working on them but all in all a well behaved dog... But, his recall when his with another dog is a shambles When in a field and alone its great, stays near, never goes out of sight. Just looking for some tips and help on what to do? Ive tried delicious treats that he never normally gets, balls, running away, whistle just nothing when his with another dog - yet all these work when there is no dog. Would it be best to just use a long lead so I have control all the time?
Re: Recall Issue Does Bruno get to meet other dogs or go for walks with them? If his recall is fine the rest of the time it doesn't sound as if it's a major problem - just annoying for you. Are there any training classes etc near you as it could just be that Bruno needs to get used to meeting other dogs but ignoring them and returning to you when called. Dogs love greeting each other and it's easy to forget their training. It would be a shame to go the long lead all the time when he's normally well behaved, we're having to keep Juno on a long lead to stop her running around so much due to current problems and it's so sad that she can' have her normal freedom or go for walks with her doggy friends. Goo luck and I'm sure you'll get lots of help and advice here on the forum.
Re: Recall Issue I still struggle with this with my 2 year old......you can pretty much create every recall practice opportunity yourself except this.....it's hard to find people who will give you the time to proof your dogs recall,and I felt a bit of a nuisance holding people up on walks for me to practice :-\ I exhausted my willing helpers quite early on so I have a dog that will recall no problem from dogs he knows ;But t it's hit and miss with a new dog :-\ Try starting really small ,expecting your lovely 10 month old to recall from any dog is a big ask.....I used to ask people to pop round to my house and I'd practice in the garden ....these folk were generally friends that I walk with so once we were doing ok in the garden I had the opportunity to do it outside off lead with them. When you get to this point ,it's accommodating strangers that you need.....tricky.Im pretty vigilant on watching out for new dogs on our walks so Dexter gets recalled most of the time before he's seen the other dog ....but if he sees a new dog and he's more than a couple of meters away he's gone :-[ my stop whistle isn't strong enough .... :-[ A long line will of course prevent the ' run off ' but to use it as a training aid you would need to be able to set up practice opps with new dogs. A local training class might be something to consider?you get to practice around a group of dogs Have you got Pippas Total Recall Book...that's what I used to get to the point we are at.....I also use every off lead dog to practice on,even if I only get a couple of tries before the OP carries on along there walk. It's interesting really,I'm like the neighbourhood dog nutter....asking people if I can practice round them ...NOBODY has ever asked me if they can practice with me,NOONE!Id be more than happy to oblige but you just don't see anybody actively training outside round my way x ( off to do a bit of stop whistle practice...reading this post back it's like a catalogue of out inadequacies ;D sorry you got me...better advice will be along shortly!)
Re: Recall Issue Thank you for replying! My mom and sister both have a dog whom he meets regularly, but other than that the only others dogs he will see are those on the field that he just wont recall too! Its not a major issue but obviously holding up other walkers whilst i have to physically walk up to Bruno and grab his harness so they can get away is not ideal haha! Training classes are rarely available, have looked into these for quite some time. I was thinking a training line as a temporary measure to see if it improves as he will still have a bit of freedom but can be pulled away, would this help his recall? I would love Bruno to be off lead all the time but it could be quite dangerous if he ran up to a dog that's not as friendly as ones he has met recently! I did have a 1 to 1 with a trainer a few weeks back who said i should avoid letting him off if he don't recall from dogs as this could be setting us up to fail his recall as he will just learn to ignore?! ~ is this correct?
Re: Recall Issue [quote author=Dexter link=topic=10081.msg147334#msg147334 date=1425467005] I still struggle with this with my 2 year old......you can pretty much create every recall practice opportunity yourself except this.....it's hard to find people who will give you the time to proof your dogs recall,and I felt a bit of a nuisance holding people up on walks for me to practice :-\ I exhausted my willing helpers quite early on so I have a dog that will recall no problem from dogs he knows ;But t it's hit and miss with a new dog :-\ Try starting really small ,expecting your lovely 10 month old to recall from any dog is a big ask.....I used to ask people to pop round to my house and I'd practice in the garden ....these folk were generally friends that I walk with so once we were doing ok in the garden I had the opportunity to do it outside off lead with them. When you get to this point ,it's accommodating strangers that you need.....tricky.Im pretty vigilant on watching out for new dogs on our walks so Dexter gets recalled most of the time before he's seen the other dog ....but if he sees a new dog and he's more than a couple of meters away he's gone :-[ my stop whistle isn't strong enough .... :-[ A long line will of course prevent the ' run off ' but to use it as a training aid you would need to be able to set up practice opps with new dogs. A local training class might be something to consider?you get to practice around a group of dogs Have you got Pippas Total Recall Book...that's what I used to get to the point we are at.....I also use every off lead dog to practice on,even if I only get a couple of tries before the OP carries on along there walk. It's interesting really,I'm like the neighbourhood dog nutter....asking people if I can practice round them ...NOBODY has ever asked me if they can practice with me,NOONE!Id be more than happy to oblige but you just don't see anybody actively training outside round my way x ( off to do a bit of stop whistle practice...reading this post back it's like a catalogue of out inadequacies ;D sorry you got me...better advice will be along shortly!) [/quote] You mentioned Pippas Total Recall Book - I have ummed and arred for a while about getting this - do you recommend this for Bruno based on his age? or is this book fine for dogs of any age?
Re: Recall Issue Hi, I would recommend Total Recall 100% and it's for dogs of all ages young or old, we used this with our rescue dog Charlie a Lab x Pointer who had ZERO recall and was an absconder when we got him at 9 months. He was on a long line for a long, long time but now he gets off lead and recalls. The book has all different exercises including recalling your dog away from other dogs. Give it a go!! xx
Re: Recall Issue Do get the book, it's very helpful. The thing is, that all cues - including recall - need to be proofed. This means that while it's often easy and straightforward to get a behaviour (recall, sit, stay) in limited and familiar circumstances, it's much harder to get that behaviour properly on cue such that it is reliable in many different circumstances. And the circumstances in which things change are wider than you might think. Adding another dog to the field where your dog would normally recall means that your recall isn't proofed against the distraction of another dog. You might also find it wouldn't work in a field that is new to your dog. Or when your dog is very far away, and so on. Proofing cues so they are really reliable is the most challenging part of training. And there isn't a way to do it without creating the opportunities you need in small steps. This article might help: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/proofing-labrador-obedience/
Re: Recall Issue [quote author=Markieee link=topic=10081.msg147349#msg147349 date=1425468767] You mentioned Pippas Total Recall Book - I have ummed and arred for a while about getting this - do you recommend this for Bruno based on his age? or is this book fine for dogs of any age? [/quote] Oh yes! There is a whole chapter on mending recall which has gone a bit awry
Re: Recall Issue The book is a great investment and it's probably safe to say we all have had or having recall problems with our problems. As others have said it may be worth calling Bruno to you before he has the opportunity to abscond to the other dog. It can be a good idea to get him used to coming to you and being clipped on to his lead a short distance and then let him off again it gets them used to just coming to you but then they get freedom again, particularly if like us you come up against lots of cyclists/walkers. Juno gets a treat for the recall and walks along without even thinking about the cyclists etc and then is released again. With a dog you do need eyes and ears in all directions looking for potential distractions and nipping them in the bud.
Re: Recall Issue [quote author=charlie link=topic=10081.msg147350#msg147350 date=1425469018] Hi, I would recommend Total Recall 100% and it's for dogs of all ages young or old, we used this with our rescue dog Charlie a Lab x Pointer who had ZERO recall and was an absconder when we got him at 9 months. He was on a long line for a long, long time but now he gets off lead and recalls. The book has all different exercises including recalling your dog away from other dogs. Give it a go!! xx [/quote] I'm going to take the plunge and get it, you say there are many exercises that include recalling away from other dogs. As I do not know anyone local who could help come and bring there dog to help Bruno's recall would you still think this could help?
Re: Recall Issue If you have a dog keen to rush over to other dogs, and then reluctant to recall away, it's very difficult to solve this without having other dogs to practice around. But the book will definitely help you. You will have to find some controllable situations in which to practice though - it's hard to solve the problem otherwise.
Re: Recall Issue You can practice using other sorts of distractions such as people, cyclists etc before you take it out in the field to practice around other dogs you see out and about. We did this with out 'this way' command - practised in an empty field for ages before using it for real, and it's worked fine.
Re: Recall Issue [quote author=Penny+Me link=topic=10081.msg147366#msg147366 date=1425470590] You can practice using other sorts of distractions such as people, cyclists etc before you take it out in the field to practice around other dogs you see out and about. We did this with out 'this way' command - practised in an empty field for ages before using it for real, and it's worked fine. [/quote] Is the "this way" command you speak of in the book? Sounds promising.
Re: Recall Issue No, "this way" isn't in total recall. My trainer calls it a "continuation" cue - it indicates to the dog to change direction as you change direction. It is very useful, and is often easier for some dogs because you are not asking them to stop but to continue on, just in a different direction. The thing is though, if you have a dog who is really, really keen to get to other dogs (rather than just moderately, or mildly, interested in other dogs) it needs proofing around other dogs like any other cue. Proofing around other types of distractions won't cut it.
Re: Recall Issue [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10081.msg147405#msg147405 date=1425479888] No, "this way" isn't in total recall. My trainer calls it a "continuation" cue - it indicates to the dog to change direction as you change direction. It is very useful, and is often easier for some dogs because you are not asking them to stop but to continue on, just in a different direction. The thing is though, if you have a dog who is really, really keen to get to other dogs (rather than just moderately, or mildly, interested in other dogs) it needs proofing around other dogs like any other cue. Proofing around other types of distractions won't cut it. [/quote] Completely off subject and not sure if you will know the answer, I have purchased the book, and have read a lot of it, and really enjoying it, I'm at the Pre-Recall for older dogs and at exercise one - where you associate the whistle as a "wow factor". I have before now used the whistle, to no avail. As long as I'm introducing it as a new thing will it be effective? Or will it be no good because I have used it before and he has ignored it?
Re: Recall Issue You can make the whistle sound different by using a different string of pips. Even if previously you used several pips, you can use several in a pattern. Dogs can tell the difference (well, mine can anyway). For my dog, a single pip is stop, two is turn, and 5 is recall. But I can (I don't though) make 5 pips sound different. pip-pip pip-pip pip Sounds like a different pattern from pip-pip-pip-pip-pip And pip-pip-pip pip-pip Sounds different again. Try it and see.
Re: Recall Issue [quote author=JulieT link=topic=10081.msg147417#msg147417 date=1425483122] You can make the whistle sound different by using a different string of pips. Even if previously you used several pips, you can use several in a pattern. Dogs can tell the difference (well, mine can anyway). For my dog, a single pip is stop, two is turn, and 5 is recall. But I can (I don't though) make 5 pips sound different. pip-pip pip-pip pip Sounds like a different pattern from pip-pip-pip-pip-pip And pip-pip-pip pip-pip Sounds different again. Try it and see. [/quote] I completely see what you mean, last thing before I try Exercise One over the next few days, it says to use a premium reward, for Bruno this was hotdog sausages. I think I should use something else as I'm starting from scratch. Could you suggest something to use, that's cheap and easily obtained?
Re: Recall Issue If he loves hotdog sausages, they will still be fine. I use low salt chicken frankfurters quite a lot and a huge pack is just a couple of £s. But anything that is meaty and smelly will do. My boy loves tinned sardines, which are quite cheap (though messy). Or juicy chicken is fine too. Most dogs love cheese (mine adores it, but it give him runny poo so I don't use it much). Just about any tinned meat will work - spam even. The smellier the better. Don't forget to reduce his meals if you use a lot of treats. And if the treats start to make up a lot of his diet, you need to think about that in terms of his overall nutrition (that's one of the reasons I feed sardines).
