We started off with a nylon collar, which Charlie hated and did a fish on a hook impression (looking back, we didn't spend enough time getting him used to it before we had to use a collar and lead in puppy class). We went onto a soft, wide material harness for a bit, while Charlie got used to things. Once Charlie got the hang of the lead, we went back to a flat collar - I'm still working on not pulling, but it's not too bad. Charlie will put a bit of pressure on the lead, but nothing like before, and I'll just stop until he remembers not to pull. I don't think I'd even have this problem if I hadn't messed up with the introduction to the collar and lead, using it without learning first what to do. Although he is always a bit worse if I need puppy care and he goes out with other people, so that might not be helping. Even though Charlie doesn't pull too badly, and anyway we only do 5 mins a day on the lead, I would like a wider collar. I'm pretty terrified of hurting Charlie's neck (which I think is a good thing, because it makes me never pull him, always lure/encourage/get him to "leave it", away from a pile of interesting poop / rotten rabbit). I can't find anything I like in the store. What do you use? And a super dim question - the lead attaches to the D ring by the buckle, right? You don't have to buy another ring to go on the collar to attach the lead? (Arrghhh, why don't I know these things!).
Re: Collars.... Hi Julie, Have you considered a harness? The harness with a front attachment helps to reduce pulling, but more importantly, helps reduce the chance that your puppy will associate the collar and lead with pulling. This will help you teach him to walk on a loose lead when you attach a lead to his collar. Pippa
Re: Collars.... Oh dear, I was trying to move away from the harness because I was told that harnesses encouraged pulling - and it is true that he has been better with a collar than with a harness with the attachment at the back (although I also think that because I think the collar might harm him, I believe our handling of him is also better than with a harness - this is in my control of course). I can see how one with a front attachment would stop pulling though. I'll try it.
Re: Collars.... Hope a front attachment one helps you Julie . Sam used to pull like a train on his way to off lead walks , I really began to despair , tried all the stop/start stuff, the turning round and heading home , even walking backwards which must have given the locals a laugh : He would always walk home like an angel but those heading off walks were a nightmare until out of sheer desperation , I got a dreaded head collar ( ducks for cover ) . It wasnt a halti type, but whats called a gentle leader and whilst Sam hated it with a passion, it saved my sanity . I only had to use it for a short time, about a month I suppose, then went back to his rope collar and rope slip lead, massive improvement Even at two years old, he will still tend to head out on the pulling side of normal, but I stand still, tell him to heel and dont move off until he walks nicely, the downside being that at times , I have to add about ten mins to my walk . Where possible , he is put into the car to go to an off lead area, always heads back at heel, in fact his off lead Heel is much better than his onlead one
Re: Collars.... Ah - I've done one thing right! I always drive to his off lead exercise. The pulling isn't too bad when he is wearing a collar - after I put him on his lead, he pulls about three times and I stop, he then "remembers" how to walk properly back to the car (more like he is seeing if I'll keep walking when he pulls, as I'm probably not 100% consistent, even though I try to be). He will pull towards another dog or another person and has on occasion "yanked" himself when I haven't been quick enough to "cushion" the lunge by reacting to him. I suppose a more precise way to put my question is: if I'm making ok progress on the not pulling (at least, I think I am), should I continue with the collar, or is it safer for him to have a harness when he is so young (and if so, I'll get one with the attachment at the front).
Re: Collars.... Harnesses are great for two things 1. Socialising puppies that are not lead trained and 2. Attaching a dog to a training lead. I don't use harnesses for teaching dogs not to pull, but simply for keeping a puppy safe in public, when I am not teaching heelwork. Teaching a dog to walk nicely on a collar and lead takes time, little puppies need to be socialised and inevitably pull towards people whilst you are out and about. If I am teaching heelwork, I start with the dog off the lead, then add a sliplead when the dog has learned to walk next to me. A harness can come in handy again with some dogs when 'proofing' heelwork. ie teaching dogs to 'heel' past other people or dogs. The main point is it completely prevents the puppy from ever associating a collar with pulling. Pippa
Re: Collars.... So clear and helpful - thanks so much. I probably need to look at how I'm trying to get him to learn to walk with me - I'll use a harness until I can look into that again.
Re: Collars.... Just back from our walk - with a harness. I have bought a few trying to find something I'm happy with, and used the best I had. He limped around off lead as though the harness was made of piano wire that was cutting into him behind his front legs (it's a completely fabric one, that if anything is slightly too big for him) and I was about to give up in alarm and take him back to the car, when a spaniel arrived to play - then he zoomed around without a care in the world. sigh... Also met lots of other labrador owners and their dogs. It was lab city out there today. One labrador went by gasping and pulling a dog walker and looking as though he was strangling himself in the process. Neither looked to be having much fun, so a good inspiration to get the lead walking thing right. We had a little go at staying walking by my side without the lead and we made it all the way back to the car off lead - but I had roast chicken of course!
Re: Collars.... Julie,great progress,well done.I did 2 months consistently of lead walking.....AKA being dragged the like a trailer truck!I consistently did stop.start stop.change direction,no progress whatsoever...not even a small improvement,it was awful,tedious,upsetting,I was starting to dread walks.....not helped by my Husband insisting on using the extendable lead( i truly hate them!)My Parents came to visit....both great dog lovers and so excited that a dog now lived in our house that they could walk....until they saw the fiasco,the stress and eventually Im embarrassed to say tears :'(.... ( I'm 43 but I think you can still have a bawl to your Mum!) I'd read and read and read in preparation for Dexters arrival but boy was I under prepared for everything!How I wish I had found this website and Pippa and the other members experience and advice. Mum said get him on a harness ....I kicked against the idea,thought it was masking the issue,rather than fixing it( which certainly in our case it is) but Mum said,how miserable do you all want to get!!! Summary of us: we are on a harness and walks are a lot more enjoyable... We work on heel work on our walks and extra through the day and Dexters heel on and off the harness are good ......until we add people and dog distractions.....sometimes I feel like we are 65% on everything....and our progress is slooooooowwww!
Re: Collars.... Gosh, I'm glad things are getting better. My OH wants an extendable lead thing. I don't have a huge pulling problem - yet - but probably will if I don't make sure I don't mess up - he will walk by me after I stop 2 or 3 times when he pulls ahead, although he does jump towards other people and dogs. I'm thinking hard now about teaching him to walk by me, even when there are other people and dogs, then putting a lead on him - of course, at puppy school you have to put a lead on and teach puppies to walk on it (with "don't let them off until your recall is perfect" ringing in your ears), there is no other way they could do it without a huge jumble of puppies in the middle of the church hall (which probably would be more fun than a solid hour of sit-down-stays... ). But makes more sense to do it the other way round doesn't it?
Re: Collars.... I don't know enough to say good or bad on the extendable a lead ....it just felt counterproductive for us. I feel like I am learning so much retrospectively by other people's experiences with younger puppies...Dexter was 5 months when we got him and our first dog...and whilst in some ways we benefitted....ie mostly toilet trained ,not too much nipping,biting as second teeth mostly through....I realize now we missed a lot of the early training steps that are the building blocks of progress.Its really interesting and insightful for me to hear how the puppies are responding .Luckily Dexter is a good boy and we are learning and getting there together.Good manners and safety are our goal and we work towards it everyday ;D
Re: Collars.... Well, don't have a lot of advice on this one either as I never was able to "cure" the pulling problem with my previous dog, but used a halti in order to make walks bearable. I have to say that with all the other problem behaviours that Simba came with, pulling on the lead is not one of them!! He does walk ahead of me, but he doesn't pull. I use his collar and lead and we have just recently got him a harness in order to be able to take him in the van places. He doesn't seem to mind the harness, although the getting it past his head on the "on" and "Off" is tricky, due to his propensity to grab anything that comes near his head with his teeth.
Re: Collars.... just met a guy in the park with a black lab and a working cocker.....really calm,well behaved dogs.we had a chat and after the usual 'what kind of dog is he?'aaaagh!!!! His advice to stop the pulling was to get a chain collar and give him a good few jerks.....' He'll soon learn,and if you get a chain collar the noise will check him too'hmmmmmmmmm think ill persevere ploughing the field to be honest!slow and steady will win the race! He was actually very nice and his dogs were gorgeous.
Re: Collars.... I know! I met a chap on the beach with a lovley old lab, who got thumped really, really hard on his lower back if he was slow to sit. I had to say bye and to walk away, I found it difficult to watch. I've been given advice on everything - throw him in the river/sea as he is slow to go in was possibly the worst (although I admit being in a wet suit in Cornwall in a freezing start to May, sitting in the sea, trying to tempt Charlie to get his knees wet may have gone too far the other way). What scares me the most, is since so many people say things I'm not sure are right, how do I know I've got the right idea? I mean generally, of course, I'm not going to start thumping and jerking Charlie even if that's the "right" thing to do. This started on day one with the vet nurse telling me to stop Charlie mouthing immediately - I muttered something about not being so sure, wasn't there something about bite inhibition? And she basically told me that I hadn't a clue. And maybe I don't!
Re: Collars.... [quote author=JulieT link=topic=1872.msg15128#msg15128 date=1372742322] (although I admit being in a wet suit in Cornwall in a freezing start to May, sitting in the sea, trying to tempt Charlie to get his knees wet may have gone too far the other way). [/quote] We all understand here You are going great. None of us manage to do it perfectly (although, thinking of Heidrun's terrific videos, well, maybe some of us do manage ;D) but we all do our best and it seems to work. Charlie will be a wonderful adult dog - and certainly a very handsome one too! Great to hear that you are making progress - all improvements, no matter how small, rate as progress! Just ignore the occasional lapses and backwards steps
Re: Collars.... Oh Heidrun’s vids – love them, and they definitely leave me feeling both inspired (maybe Charlie and I could get to do a bit of that too, one day, if we work hard) and totally inadequate (I’ll have to manage to get a harness on him without fuss first….).
Re: Collars.... Rachael is so right,About us all doing our best and Heidrun ;D...she is amazing! You will get loads of advice,especially from 'helpful members of the public'put me in a right tail spin at first !Ive started to develop a filter now,probably after a really HORRIBLE Vet visit!And Im also learning to trust my instinct about what is right for Dexter as OUR dog.I still listen to everybody and I'm thirsty for knowledge but I would never blindly follow what someone says.If I'm not sure about something the Forum is a brilliant place to ask a question or sometimes just formulate your thoughts.I trust ever bodies opinion on here,and no one judges you.....thank goodness ,some of the blunders I have nearly made! x
