Brody is 12 weeks old this weekend, and still has the habit of when we leave him for 5 mins (Kitchen or Toilet) alone, the howling and crying starts. We have had him for 2 weeks so far, and progressing nicely with him with house and basic training but the separation anxiety is something he seems to still struggle with. Not sure if he is protesting or is worried we are leaving him? Just started clicker training on the basic commands, and today will look at some videos online about "leaving him alone". First weekend we got Brody we had this battle with the howling. Only way to describe it was no-one wanted to back down and it was just horrible listening to him. He was howling as we dared to crate him a night, or we dared to put him in his pen After the 3rd day of this, we decided enough was enough, and after a 25min howl, and us two sat trying to ignore it, he quieten down and that was the last we had of it and he now sleeps mostly the whole night. Should i be practising same tactic here? Or should i be using treats and reinforcing being in the play pen alone is a good thing? Understand he is very young, but on the same light, as i am on my own with him this weekend, only chance to leave is 1) with a kong and that has a time limit of 20mins or 2) when he is asleep As always thanks for any tips, advice and general understanding as sure you have all been there
Taking a puppy away from mum and littermats, and putting it in a crate in a strange house is pretty traumatic. Do you have the Happy Puppy Handbook? You will find instructions in there for crate training - it takes a few days. Sure, some puppies are just fine in a crate right away without a bother on them,, others not. If you work through the crate training instructions, then you should end up with a puppy that is quiet in his crate. The best thing to do in terms of leaving him alone is to build it up just a few minutes at a time (a bit like the crate training). That said, you are a few weeks down the line from night one/day one now - so you could just stick it out, and let him howl until he is quiet. I'm not a fan of that as a strategy myself, as I think you can end up with a dog that like the sound of his own voice.
Hey Julie. Yeah we have the handbooks (both Gwen and Pippas) and following the guidelines (maybe not well enough!). As we are a few weeks into it, i would have expected the trauma to have been reduced as he is now used to us and the house. We have a play pen in the living room as an area that is safe for him, and for us. Living room is his main area in the house as due to layout in the house, and no other room would work. Plus we have two house cats, that we are in the slow process of "introducing". Inside of the play pen is a crate. We have two, one in living room and one in bedroom to save us having to move it every day up and down. However, while we have crate trained upstairs at night, the one downstairs is rarely used. Additionally, he is getting big and at some point we need to have him sleep downstairs in this crate. As we have stairs, we don't want him up and down the stairs due to his joints, and he will soon be getting too big to carry up and down them! I have spent the morning making the pen (using treats when he goes in, closing pen doors, going out of room for a minute) to try and reinforce that the pen is a happy place to be. Also dont want to stick it out but worried about encouraging any cries or protests as well, so we have a stand off while i wait for him to be quiet. As we are new to it all, just want to make sure we are doing it right!
Hi Amanda You need to start a new topic in the appropriate section of the forum. I'll leave this here for a while for you to read and then move it - let us know if you are still struggling.
Stu - have you tried feeding him his meals in the crate in the pen? Create lots of positive associations to it. Leave treats in there (without him seeing) for him to find so it's like the crate is "feeding" him.
Hey SB. Yeah we did initially, but maybe not enough. I have started today with Clicker and decided will use a large allocation of his food to feed him inside of the crate and play pen for today. Not sure if we have confused the situation with having the play pen and crate. We'll see. Also going back over the books and advice regarding crate training and try and apply. I read one of the other posts regarding feeling like you have "messed things up" with the training but as someone commented, if you can train a 9-year old dog set in his ways, it is never too late Comforting reading as you sometimes feel like your getting it all wrong!
It was me who said about training a nine year old dog, so please try not to worry about bringing up a puppy . We all make mistakes at times , but they can be rectified , honestly
When I first got Myles (he was 11 weeks), I was so worried about his crate training and crying when I would leave him alone, as he was so different from my first lab pup. My first pup took to the crate fairly easily. Myles seemed to hate it and I was afraid he would never get it. Here are a few things that worked for me (I apologize if you are already doing these things, but just in case I started out trying to get him to cry it out in another room so I could sleep. So he was in a different part of the house than me. This did not go well. So I moved a crate into my room and spent some time doing clicker training to get him to go into the crate willingly. This really didn't take too long, just baby steps and kept click/treat for him moving closer. Eventually going into crate and I would feed him many treats inside it, but then I would let him come out. Did this a few times before I started closing door. Anyway, I could go on but just took really tiny steps and worked up to him just being in crate, but me still there, then me stepping out of the room. And I stuck to the rule of NEVER giving him any attention while he was whining, just wait it out. Sounds like you might already be doing this. I would wait for the tiniest break in whining then go let him out then. When greeting him or leaving him, just made sure not to fuss over him. Keep it short, "gotta go" or something like that. Once he realized he was in the room with me at night, his crying stopped. A couple nights he started whining but I would say a firm NO (contrary to what some training says on this, some say to not say anything), but Myles responded well and I think liked the assurance of knowing I was in the room. So we got over our night crying pretty quick. Daytime leaving for work took longer. For several more days, maybe even a week, he cried as I left and a couple times I could hear him crying when I got home. But it eventually just all stopped. Now he knows the routine. I say "Kennel", toss a few treats or a yummy Kong in there and he goes right in. Now Myles is not one to put himself to bed in there, I don't think he ever will be. But he accepts it just fine now. One other thing, I would click and treat Myles any time he would sit calmly without whining. So I may be cooking dinner, he's penned in other room but being quiet, so I would walk in there and click and treat that. Just little things so he started to associate "I get treats when I'm quiet". Sorry so long, hope this helps. Brody sure is a cutie!!!
Thanks for the reply At the moment, no cries when he is in with us at night. However, take him downstairs and if i go into kitchen(he can't see me), he starts crying and whining until i come back. I read a few days ago to reward the "calmness", which is what i started doing. Yesterday i used a good portion of food just for clicking in and out of his crate, and by the end he would go in, along with rewarding calmness.This i am going to do again today, and keep making the crate/play pen a happy place. I normally ignore any noise and give him no attention and this will be not looking at him, or speaking to him until he is quiet. When he does this when locked in the play pen, i normally wait and reward when he is silent with a treat, or at least a few days I ago I started. Think i need to carry on with this and be patient Difficult to tell if he is testing us, protesting or have a case of separation anxiety. Have to say though i am loving this and him. We took our time in getting him, researched and nothing quite prepares you but the moment yesterday where he went into his crate under a vocal cue was great! He has such a personality already
Hello Stu, just catching up with this thread. It's worth persevering with the crate training - how is it going? A definite crate routine might help. Both of mine (Tuppence, nearly two, and Wispa, three and a half) settle very well in their crates and occasionally choose to sleep there during the day. I put the radio on if I'm leaving them for a while, so now if Tuppence hears me switch on the radio she rushes into the kitchen for her kong, ready to go into her crate! I don't always fill the kongs, but just smear a bit of peanut butter inside. Brody looks great!
Hey Granca, thanks for replying the message. Back to step 1 for crate and making it a "nice place to be". Cries this morning, while he had a kong and I had a shower (as girlfriend is away). Going to start re-reading and going back over the crate training for downstairs. He knows the "in your crate" command, when i use treats (or a Kong). Now need to get him used to it. Thing is we have a crate and a playpen. Idea is for when we do eventually leave him he has the play pen to move around, and the crate as "his bed". This is why we have neglected the downstairs crate. Upstairs he accepts and sleeps without a sound. This is where i think i need to work on, and get him used to crate downstairs.
Actually just reading Pippas book on the noisy puppy, and today will try the "click for quiet" method. Do you think i should put in directly in his crate, or do it with the playpen?
I don't know Stu, as when we got Poppy we also had an old, very calm male lab, so she just used to go into her playpen, which was right by his bed, and settle down... I think the thing to remember is that Brody is not being 'naughty' with his crying and whining. You and your girlfriend are his pack, his parents; he depends on you for everything. If he isn't with you, his instincts tell him it's dangerous, and he will do everything to be with you. Just stay calm and kind - but firm, obviously - and you will get there. Make training light-hearted and fun, and the playpen/crate a happy, safe place where he goes for a bit of down time. Don't worry, you're doing great and you'll get there.
Thanks Karen forth encouragement We are staying calm and as relaxed, as we think we know the reasons, it just trying to convince Brody he will be okay Luckily the neighbours are fairly chilled as well, i think that is down to Brody "cuteness" factor After the helpful posts yesterday, i have now started to put in place the advice we have been given. Treat the calmness, make crate a happy place, going in and out, etc. Baby steps! Hopefully see an improvement in the next few weeks.
Wonder if you could work on his crying when you go into the other room the same way you might work on a "stay". Basically put him in his pen, take a step back, then go back to him, click and treat. Repeat but take 2 steps back, always walk back to him quickly and click when you get there, then treat. That way he starts to realize you are coming back and you can work on increasing the distance and duration from there. Just a thought. I am still learning all this too (Myles is only 6 months), but realizing all the ways to use clicker training!
Well actually watched a video online (kikopup) and combined it with the method from Pippa regarding "click for quiet" today. Also did your method as well Myles I kept coming in and out of the room, and clicking his quiet. Left the room for a minute and rewarded his quiet, and slowly built it up. However, he seems to protest against being in his play pen and being left, but kept on with this technique for 2 short sessions, and had mixed success this morning. Came back after a walk and we had company, and a small baby, and food... he was getting too excited and i couldn't look after him so asked him to go to his crate (worked), and then shut the door and silence. Actually lay down and no protesting. Rewarded his quiet and worked. Now could be he was tired, could be back to normal tomorrow! Will keep reinforcing the silence, and going out and back with same technique and try and build up the minutes i am away.
Thought i would give an update. So the crying and howling as completely stopped Worked hard on treating the silence, and also making the crate in the living room a nice place to be (treats, kongs, etc). We kept also walking out and back, treating any silence and eventually building up the time. Now we can leave him without any noise, well, the only noise now is when he knows he is getting fed (he hears the kibble going into the bowl from kitchen) but that we can handle Just wanted to say thanks to all for the advice, as it really helped
