Re: New pup - 'helpful' husband. I think you've all got entirely the wrong end of me. Not that it worries me what people think because i know why i bought her and what i want to do with her. perhaps this is the wrong site for me but as i'm so new at this and am wanting to follow the gundog club tests etc. it felt / feels like the right place. If you haven't read them, to understand what i'm doing it might be useful to read pippa's gundog training books. i have puppy to grade 2 and they are absolutely fab. i can't recommend them highly enough. it's hardly puppy concentration camp. there are rules that were broken with hd and led to problems. if we don't break them again i get a puppy i don't have to mend and i am not good enough at this to mend so i would prefer not to break in the first place. Adding "don't take this the wrong way" doesn't then allow you to say whatever you wish. My children use "no offence but" which is the same and is guaranteed to make people take offence immediately. It's a banned phrase in our house - do you think it would be possible to ban it (and variations on the theme) from this thread too? ********************************* Anyway, came to work today leaving husband alone with the two children and two dogs. puppy has decided that bitey face is fun even with hd's face swollen like she's got a walnut under her lip. hd is too lovely to tell her off properly so she's having to take refuge away from said annoying wee beastie. going to take puppy to groomers tomorrow. they're doing a free puppy visit which i thought would be fun with the children and good for her socialisation. plus her claws are incredibly sharp and ripping us all to shreds so they'll cut those for us. made my leg bleed today when she jumped up. there's nothing else they can groom but just being in there will be good for her and i'm too scared to cut such miniature nails. removing jumping up will be hard as she spends quite a bit of time on her back legs but it's one too many things to deal with at the moment and i'll have to wait a few weeks to knock that one on the head. standing on their back legs is actually quite good for them. hd had problems with her spine and it was one of the things i was taught to do with her to strength it was to have her stand on her back feet in the situp and beg position. Eevee had her 3 month jab yesterday (was in the vets a lot yesterday!) and vet was very happy with her growth and how well she looked. she's 5.5kg now and definitely looked a lot more filled out. she's lost the ribby look she came home with and although they're still visible it's not all the time. she's not going to be a big dog. the vet asked me whether i was going to show her which was very kind but this one's built for speed not for looks! i think she's beautiful but she will be a long way from breed standard! really need to do more photos. things move too fast and i forget. sarah
Re: New pup - 'helpful' husband. Gosh, HD, "no offence but...." It's only dumbos like me on the forum (with no real interest in gun dog stuff proper, but with a huge amount of respect and gratitude for the advice I receive from those who are kind enough to share their experience) that haven't read every gun dog book going! Half the people on this forum probably wrote them! Of course it's the right place for you, but it's a fun and relaxed place too...
Re: New pup - 'helpful' husband. [quote author=JulieT link=topic=1920.msg19381#msg19381 date=1375189940] It's only dumbos like me on the forum (with no real interest in gun dog stuff proper, but with a huge amount of respect and gratitude for the advice I receive from those who are kind enough to share their experience) that haven't read every gun dog book going! Half the people on this forum probably wrote them! [/quote] There are no dumbos Julie just people like you and I that are less experienced - but learning all the time! Having a dog as a pet is just as legitimate as having one as a gundog or for flyball or obedience or any of the other myriad and wonderful things everyone on this forum does with their dogs. I love the diversity of things that I get to hear about on here, Riley would probably love them too but we're challenged enough with the retrieving There are certainly extremely experienced gundog types on here who are generous with their time and advice, I have been stuck or disheartened on several occasions and the support and advice from everyone(not just the clever clogs ) has been wonderful I find this a happy place to be!
Re: New pup - 'helpful' husband. You are in a very difficult situation. And you are not the first. The conflicting views of different family members are why many keen gundog trainers kennel their dogs. To be fair, most forum members here, and indeed dog owners generally, simply don't realise how important some of the early handling of a retriever can be for long term success, nor how 'obsessive' we retriever trainers can be about getting it right It sounds as though you need a really serious chat with your OH and to come to an agreement whereby he only plays with the older dog. Or, to accept that you will just have to make the best of the puppy with any flaws he may have created. Is he into shooting? Can you get him interested? Can you show him some youtube videos of the kind of thing you are aiming for? Tell him how much it means to you and how much you would appreciate him leaving your puppy alone? I'm sure you can do this if you go the right way about it. You may need to adopt a crafty approach and some lateral thinking. There are some good things here, firstly that you succeeded in teaching your children not to interfere with your training, which many people fail to do, and secondly, that you have a retriever and not a spaniel. It is much harder to spoil a retriever, provided you don't make it sick of retrieving. Pippa
Re: New pup - 'helpful' husband. This forum is indeed a happy place, and under no circumstances was I meaning to be rude to you or disrespectful, Sarah. Everyone is allowed to express themselves fully here, even if their views aren't exactly in alignment with everyone else, and we all want and expect slightly different things from our dogs - but of course we all have to stay within the bounds of common courtesy. To me, your posts sounded as though there was a degree of tension and stress going on - but please, that's just my personal opinion! Eevee and Honey both sound like lovely dogs, and I'm sure you're providing them both with a good home and super training, and good luck to you!
Re: New pup - 'helpful' husband. I was accussed of calling you horrible, and it didn't bother me, but I do feel when an established member, who helps everyone, whenever they can is 'pulled up' by you, I DO get offended on their behalf. I find your posts entirely confrontational Sarah, deliberately so. Karen is right in what she wrote, it doesn't sound like you enjoy this puppy one little bit! And I don't think she needs to apologise for suggesting a way for you to start having fun, by relaxing a little. I have made a pact with myself not to read any more of this thread. There I feel better already. Apologies to all other readers, I do hope it's not caused any of you to feel uncomfortable, genuinely. You're all so lovely, but somebody had to say something, might as well be me.
Re: New pup - 'helpful' husband. Ok, I have read this thread through, and it all started pleasantly enough. Here are my thoughts. I see a person with huge enthusiasm and determination wanting to train a genuine working gundog, and buying a puppy specifically for this purpose. Potential for 'ruin' Unfortunately it is possible in some cases, for even high drive dogs to have their retrieving drive ruined. And it may be very hard to put 'drive' back into a dog once it has been taken out. It is also very time consuming fixing delivery problems in a retriever that has been chased or had things taken out of its mouth. Not all Labradors treated in this way will develop problems, but many do. Training a gundog puppy for fieldwork, in a serious sense, is actually quite stressful if other people interfere with your efforts to develop retrieving drive and to ensure soft mouth and a keen, willing delivery. Problems can be drawn out and expensive (if you have to pay a professional trainer) to fix. A misunderstanding All this is completely irrelevant to someone whose primary objective in buying a puppy is to have a nicely behaved pet. Most people would not regard a puppy who stopped wanting to retrieve as being ruined! Other forum members most probably thought Sarah was being light hearted about her problems with her other half's interference, whereas in fact she is very stressed by this. I hope I have got that part right, and explained it properly. The Big Issue Things were still going well on page two, and I think everyone was enjoying Sarah's reports on her puppy's progress, when the whining question arose. I am sorry I did not respond to the whining issue, I was a bit pre-occupied last week. I can understand why Tartanmouse was bemused by Sarah's concern over the noise. Unfortunately whining is a big issue for gundogs, it is an eliminating fault in competition in the UK and frowned upon on shoots. So worrying about noise would also have been added stress for Sarah. Again, this is a misunderstanding caused by looking at a dog from two very different viewpoints. And an already stressed Sarah now feels we think she is being harsh. So, onwards now. First the noise issue I have to disagree with Heidrun here, I have stopped several dogs from whining in crates and cars using the 'click for quiet' technique. I use this technique on any puppy that makes the slightest sound in a crate from the very beginning with great success. I really do recommend it with one proviso: whining around the house and car is not necessarily predictive of whining in the field, and vice versa. This is really important, because it means that there is no need for Sarah to worry excessively about the noise problem. Dogs that are quiet in the home and car may still squeak in the field. And I have never personally known anyone successfully cure a dog that whines on the peg, or that squeaks whilst hunting, either with punishment or positive reinforcement. Noise in the field is a very difficult issue and probably the biggest thing you can do to prevent is, is to introduce the dog very gradually to fieldwork, not at too young and age, and to focus on preventing the dog from becoming very overexcited. Interference Karen's point on page three is a very valid one If a dog is jointly owned by a couple and the couple have very differing standards when it comes to dog training, someone is going to have to compromise, and it can sometimes be better to lower one's standards than be constantly fighting with the other half. Sarah, if you can persuade your other half not to 'bore' the puppy with retrieves, this is probably the most important goal. Delivery problems can be fixed later with a clicker, though this can be quite time consuming. In conclusion I feel that the bad feeling on this thread was largely due to people approaching puppy raising from rather different perspectives. There are plenty of forums that are battle grounds, and I do not wish to add to them. I would like to ask that everyone ensures that their posts are friendly in tone and avoid personal remarks. I hope we can all move on now and leave this as a thread about Eevees progress. If anyone would like any of their posts deleted or edited, just message me. We all sometimes say things we might later regret. Sarah, I hope you will continue to post a diary of your puppy's progress. I also hope you will consider learning about event markers (it does not need to be a clicker), which will help you greatly in your training. If anyone is interested in some of the lengths we go to, to build retrieving desire in a gundog puppy, you can read more here: Retrieving for gundogs Pippa
