im not feeling very confident this morning with jack i know its early days but it felt like progress was being made and now its like 2 steps backwards his last walk with me last night was rubbish pulling harder than ever before :-[ hes got a runny bum and left a large present for us on the carpet this morning - i think hes got an upset tum from the treats hes been getting and the human food hes managing to steal im worried hes bored i got a crate and im worried hell be sad if i use it im worried about what he might eat next if hes bored i just want to do whats right by him, but im not feeling very upbeat this morning that im doing ok
Re: argh new owner wobble! Try not to be too downcast , its quite normal to have setbacks , it comes hard at times, just when you think progress is being made . Pups thrive on routine and repetition , loads of patience too, so just stick at it , lead training can be the pits but try not to stress as he will pick up on this and act accordingly . Labs are shockers for picking up rubbish to eat , and/or stealing food which they shouldnt have, its a case of eyes in the back of your head when they are in the zone , upset tums seem to be par for the course for this reason : My boy hasnt ever had a crate but then I am home all day and so was able to watch him like a hawk when he was a pup but I do recognise that crates can be invalueable . They can be a sanity saver but also provide a safe haven , a den, for pups and most of them enjoy a place to call their own . Pippa has a good article about crate training on here somewhere , I`ll try and find it for you , keep your chin up , it does get better
Re: argh new owner wobble! You obviously love Jack very much and want the best for him. He is getting good food, vet care when he needs it, warmth, shelter, love, cuddles - and he has an owner who is committed to working hard at helping him to be a good member of human and canine society. I'd say that he's got it made. Don't feel worried about the pulling. They all have bad days. I have worked really hard with Obi's pulling and he is now great on lead but now and then he still makes a serious effort at auditioning for Sled Dogs (he doesn't get anywhere but he still gives it a red hot go). None of them are perfect and we all have days of training that we just want to put in the bin Last night at our obedience class we had a new, harder-core instructor and I got roused on for barking (well, Obi got in trouble for barking and I got in trouble for letting him). Oh well, tomorrow is a new day Labradors are just shocking at eating what they shouldn't. That much is certainly true! My old Lab used to gorge himself on plums when our old plum tree ripened its fruit every January. Well, those plums had to go somewhere and they usually ended up on the carpet at 2am. The number of times that I have cleaned Labrador Plum Poo off the carpet... Ghastly. If you get a crate and train him that it is a positive place to be then he definitely won't be sad in it. He will see it as his den and he will relax in it. It's a place of secure retreat that he will see as his. He will be just fine. Right now you are feeling down about a few things and are thinking of all the worst scenarios. But you are being way too hard on yourself. You sound like a terrific, responsible and caring owner to me. Seriously, one day you will look back on these early days and go.....yes...it all did get better...and now I have a wonderful dog who fits into my family perfectly.
Re: argh new owner wobble! thanks both, Oberon - how do i make the crate a positive place to be? hes already got a pop up fabric mesh style house that has a zip up door much like a tent, we put him in it on his first night and zipped him in, he cryed and howled for a bit til we let him out. it was his first night with us so we let him out after 20 mins. im reluctant to use too many treats to get him in there because of his tummy, im trying to only give him his food and remove the chance of stealing human food, hes not been given any, apart from an ice pole the other day he loved that! hell be left today for 3 periods, 9.40-11.45 ( toddler group) 3 - 3.45 (school run) 4-5.20 (kids swimming lesson) then theres someone home for him all evening, i guess if i try him in the crate for the school run as thats the shortest period and see how he gets on?
Re: argh new owner wobble! Hi there, I think 45 minutes for a first introduction to the crate is too long. Start by feeding him in the crate, putting little surprise treats in the crate for him to find, maybe even leave something you have worn and old t-shirt for example in the crate so there is a familiar smell in there. But leave the door open at the beginning until he feels totally comfortable about being in there. Only then would I start to close the door for short periods at a time and preferably when he is tired after a walk or training. In the meantime your best bet is to make the room he is in as dog proof as possible by putting everything out of reach.
Re: argh new owner wobble! The ideal would be to do a bit of training with the crate before he gets left in it for any period of time at all. To make the crate a positive place you would feed him all his meals in it and reward him for being in it. When we crate trained Obi we lured him into the crate with treats and he was given the treat when he went in. We did this a lot. We also randomly put treats in there when he wasn't looking so that when he wandered in he found something nice. We started shutting the door on him early in the piece but only for a second, then we'd open the door again (we actually followed the steps in Susan Garrett's 'Crate Games' DVD but you don't need to go to those lengths though it is a good DVD with a slightly different approach). Basically, the idea is to make sure that as many good things as possible (mainly involving food) happen in the crate, then gradually increasing the time in the crate. You can leave chewie toys and treats in the crate when you go out (like a frozen, filled Kong). Perhaps you could divide his meals up into lots of small meals so he gets lots of opportunity to eat nice things in the crate, but just a bit at a time. Here is the article that Pippa wrote on crate training a puppy http://www.thelabradorsite.com/?p=1144
Re: argh new owner wobble! I so understand where you are coming from - a couple of days early on I wondered what on earth I'd done... it did get better, although of course still have bad days. But overwhelmingly positive experience though! On lead walks - I have no experience at all to be giving advice, but one thing I really know for sure is the worst mistake I made was sticking a collar and lead on Charlie and trying to go for a walk down a road full of distractions without training him how to walk first. Luckily, I found this forum while Charlie is still very young, read the right articles, experienced kind people answered my stupid questions, and I read the right articles again, and we're now doing ok (until it all goes wrong, no doubt, and I have another set of dumb questions...) Good luck!
Re: argh new owner wobble! Honestly crate training is not something you can rush or you will end up with a dog terrified of being left alone in a crate for any period of time. First things first is to bring the crate where he is most of the time and get him used to it being there.At least a couple days. Have some treats handy though so if he does venture inside it give him a treat.Covering the crate with a thin blanket can make it feel safer too. Once a couple days have passed start doing the treat and crate game. Throw treats inside the crate and let him fetch it! Even getting him to sit and hiding loadsa treats in his blanket for him to snuffle out. Then what I did was asking him to sit in his crate and treating him. If he could do this then get him to sit and stay and leave the room for a few seconds (door open) and come back and treat him. Keep doing it and slowly start extending the time your away. What I would then do is take him for a run. Find a place that you can let him off or use a long line so he can burn some serious energy off. Play ball for an hour or so to burn it off if that's not an option. You want him so tired he can hardily stand up. Then close the crate door. When he goes to sleep on the floor or wherever he would sleep usually. Have him stand up and move. Keep doing it till he REALLY wants to be left alone. Then just open your crate door. Ask him to sit in it like practised and treat him. You will find that he learns that if he is to be left alone then he goes to his crate. And it will be a positive thing not a bad thing. It sounds mean but I did that twice with kinda and he would whine to go IN his crate then on. I cant get him out of it now! That worked for me anyway!
Re: argh new owner wobble! Just to say, if you're doing it the way newpuppymom describes, I'd say you'd need a good experience of dogs. It sounds like you'd be overexercising then pestering a puppy so that it retreats from you, which I'd personally not advise. That's only my opinion of course. In no way is it meant to offend anyone, apologies if that's the case.
Re: argh new owner wobble! Blackjack do you think Jack might settle in a playpen set up? Or if you had a room divider or some sort perhaps. Then you're in complete control of what he's left with regarding kongs, chews and anything he's not allowed, isn't in there to begin with. We have 2 kinds, one is a complete play pen, the other arrangement attaches to brackets on the wall, and gives pup their own, safe space. They're on this thread: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/forums/index.php/topic,1874.msg15060.html#msg15060 You're doing such a good job with Jack, we all have the wobbles now and then - keep at it!
Re: argh new owner wobble! Sorry you are having a down day blackjack....what was I like yesterday ...wailing and railing on your zig zag walking thread,I was on right downer....these days come ,but then of course they go too I was worried Dexter was going to get bored but now we have had him for 3 months I have come to terms with the fact that he doesn't need me to occupy him all the time,he has a lot of chew toys for when he is left alone....but to be honest he sleeps mostly if there's nothing going on,which is fine with me as its so hot at the moment and he gets 2 walks in the evening and is active and playful when Chris comes in from work so they get their time together.Jack won't be bored I'm sure. We didn't get a crate for our preparations for Dex's arrival...we didnt think he needed one as he has the utility room gated off from the kitchen so can always see us......after a bad first night we bought a crate and there wasn't a peep out of him(he had been crate trained Pre arrival to us) the door is always open during the day but we close him in at night.even though he can be secured in his own little area it's been really helpful eg washing machine on the blink this week he was in his crate quite happily while the engineer was here.so persevere with it if its something you want to use.For us it works. You are doing a brilliant job,you are committed to raising Jack to be a lovely dog and you will succeed.You are managing you and your family's life around his requirements too which I can imagine is challenging and tiring so keep your chin up,you are doing great x
Re: argh new owner wobble! thanks again everyone the crate is in his room (the lounge diner) and i have moved as much stuff out the room as possible. the crate door is open, however i left him for the first period today 9.30-11.45 and come back to find hes not done anything naughty hes even waited for me to come back before distroying his tennis ball. If he continues to be good do i even need to crate him? Oberon - do you still use a crate? the only reason i can see to use it is if i need to open both the front door and the living room door when taking things through the house. on his walk this morning he barked at a pidegeon and seemed a bit frightened of it! but he pulled so much and with my 3 yr old in tow i took him back ater only a little walk. Next plan the face halti.
Re: argh new owner wobble! I don't still use a crate. We got Obi at 9 months (an outside dog, not toilet trained, did not know about couches, TVs, kitchens..). We took about three weeks to establish the crate as a positive place then started to leave him in it for short periods while we left the room, then the house, then the property (over a period of days). 5 mins at first, then about 30 mins by end of the week. About two weeks after that we were up to 4 hours if we needed it. We never left him longer than that. We put the crate away when he was about 12 months (bit hazy on that) after we succeeded at leaving him alone in the house for a few hours with the crate door open. Pretty soon after that he could be left with the run of the house for half a day, then a full work day a couple of days a week. So, we did take our time with the crate because we had the time. You can progress much faster than we did though.
Re: argh new owner wobble! I still use the crate at night. Goldie came to me at 3 years as a outside dog like Obi, didnt kow about toileting outside or anything else. Her crate is in the livingroom and through the evening she will take herself to it for a nap. It has a cover on it and in a quiet corner so i guess she see's it as a wee den. She is crated at night although i have left her uncrated in the house a few times now for up to 2 hours and she has been fine. Because she is very rarely needed to be left in the house alone its hard to build up the time gradually but eventually i hope she can be uncrated at night too. Build up the time gradually and maybe vary the times in between also so he doesnt automatically think each time is longer than the last.
Re: argh new owner wobble! thanks lisa, as he is mostly toilet trained and uncrated at night, do you think he even needs it? today (so far ... touch wood) hes not done anything naughty whilst i was out, hes got a pop up crate/house/thing he goes in for a few seconds then comes out. i only wanted to crate so that he didnt chew up the house, but if today is anything to go by he may be ok?
Re: argh new owner wobble! As a new puppy owner too, I'm no expert but I can give you some advice from my experiences... Labs are very intelligent creatures and need mental stimulation as well as exercise. Have you considered clicker training? When my 4 month old Axl starts looking for items of furniture to chew, I do 10 minutes of clicker training and it seems to calm him down. Just basic commands, nothing fancy, but he does enjoy it. He only has to see the clicker in my hand now and he sits ready for action. There are various books and youtube videos that show you what to do. It will stop him getting bored. If you haven't got a kong, get one and fill it up with yoghurt and freeze it. I keeps them occupied for quite a while. As others have said, puppies seem to like a routine so try to do things each day at similar times. Keep going with the crate training and build it up slowly. I was sceptical at first, the whole idea of putting an animal in a 'cage' went against all my principles but Axl now knows it's his place to go for peace and quiet. Puppies are hard work but you will reap the rewards very soon.
Re: argh new owner wobble! when clicker training, do you use treats aswell? Or click and sometimes treat?
Re: argh new owner wobble! Always follow a click with a reward, so if food, always treat: http://totallydogtraining.com/event-markers-in-dog-training/
Re: argh new owner wobble! Hi NPM, so sorry you are feeling down. Been there myself a time or two - and I'm sure as you look around the forum you'll see that we all get down about things. Training a dog is hard at times and it certainly takes patience and perseverance. But you will get there - he will grow up and out of some of those annoying things and your training will teach him what is expected of him. Try not to stress too much (advice I need to give myself often! ) and take it a day at a time!
Re: argh new owner wobble! I think you will find it worth getting him used to the crate. We used a puppy playpen for the first twelve months, but to all extents and purposes it's the same thing. It just means you can go to the shops, or the gym, or the doctor's or the office or whatever - and not come back to find all your cushions chewed up. It's also very useful if you want to take your dog on holiday. We don't use it any more now, either - found we didn't need it after about a year.
