Someone we know has arrived in resort with his ten-month old Lab, Ben. There will come a time when our dogs will cross paths and I would like to arrange a situation for controlling this, rather than just coming across them in a situation where there will be issues - for example, I can guarantee that there would be problems if they met for the first time in a pub (quite likely, with his owner!!). So, I've been thinking how to go about this. For those of your who don't have all the information, Shadow can be reactive to male dogs. As a young teenager, he was bullied a lot by other males, and it seems to have made him want to "get his own back first". I tend to avoid unknown males because of this, although we've had some positive experiences recently, too. He seems generally fine with small dogs and large dogs, but ones around his own size can be triggers. He is absolutely fantastic with bitches; either plays nicely with them, or ignores them. He tends to be worse if Willow is around; he is very possessive of her. Willow is great with all dogs. She generally dismisses them and has little interest. On occasion, she will play, if the other dog really wants to. She is also very good at setting boundaries and telling other dogs off if they cross the line in social etiquette, without it escalating more than it needs to. So, my first step would be to introduce Ben and Willow, off-lead, when Shadow isn't there. They actually met yesterday on-lead, and it was fine - Willow told Ben off for getting too pushy, but sadly, his owner then gave him a big lead jerk and shouted at him. I told him it wasn't necessary, that Willow's doing a fine job showing him the boundaries, but it fell on deaf ears. So, off-lead would mean that that negativity was removed. I think they'll probably end up having a little play and then Willow will get bored and come back to play with me instead. I have no worries about that meeting. Then, introducing Shadow and Ben when Willow isn't around. But this is where I'm unsure what to do. Shadow is a lot more reactive on lead than off, but I also obviously have control of him if he behaves inappropriately. An off-lead meeting may be absolutely fine. Or, it may not. Ben at ten months may still have puppy levels of testosterone, or they may be increasing. An option is to have a friendly mediator there. Alfie is a really laid-back Lab that Shadow adores and who has already met Ben. Could this help Shadow settle down, or is adding another dog to the mix asking for more trouble? There is absolutely no way that Alfie would get involved in any shenanigans; he's only told one other dog off in his whole life and will remove himself from a situation rather than engaging. I only thought of this option because of JulieT's comments that walking in a group improves Charlie's confidence around other dogs. Any thoughts? We're unlikely to bump into one another on walks, because, sadly, the owner isn't much of a walker ( ) so Ben doesn't get a lot of exercise. And it's not as if we take our dogs into bars often, maybe once every couple of weeks, but I know that there's a high chance that, if we do, now they've arrived in the village, they'll be there. It's a recipe for disaster meeting inside like that. How would you approach this? I don't want to spend the rest of forever avoiding boys with Shadow, and want to start building positive meetings with unknown males. As always, we have limited chances to work on these things, so it would be good to get this right.
I think your plan sounds good. Off leash with plenty of room for each dog to avoid the other if they wish. In my experience the key is space for the dogs to do this. I agree the confines of a pub would not be best. If the other male is intact at 10 months he will be at or near the peak of his testosterone levels as is explained in the Puppy License to Misbehave section down near the bottom of this link: http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/10 Dog Behavior.pdf The problem I see is that ideally you would meet the other dog in lots of space situations many times so they can get used to each other. I'm guessing but I would like three or four times a week for a couple of weeks. Ben's owner doesn't sound like that might happen. Good luck. I've tried this myself with the young male right across the street and the other lady and I just could not find the time to walk the dogs together often enough, it was really hard to sync our schedules.
Charlie doesn't get to interact with other dogs in a pub. Well, sure, if he is with a dog he knows very well and arrived with, he'll just lie down with them but otherwise, no way he'd get to say hello to a strange dog in a pub. He is on a shortish lead, by my chair and on his mat. That's that. When we go to the pub after gundog training, everyone does this. Dogs are by their owner's chairs and expected to settle, they don't get to meet and greet other dogs in the pub. Hmmm....of course you do get the mad pet owners who wander around allowing their dogs to mug other dogs, but I just tell them no. Only once I had a problem with when someone insisted but I was in a group of people and dogs with SWMBO and she had an extremely straightforward exchange which made the person leave! Yes, allowing Charlie to go out with a group of dogs that he counts as 'mates', and having him approach other dogs surrounded by his mates, has been brilliant for his confidence. It also helps that the dog walker who takes him is extremely experienced and attended, with her own dog, some of the dog communications classes that Charlie went to when he was younger - and her own dog is now part of the group of mates - it's all just perfect. A textbook solution, really....the dogs learned in class together, with teaching dogs, then together took it on the road. That's a bit different though from just involving a 3rd dog, no matter how super he is. That said, all the teaching dogs were just super well socialised, confident dogs that had a tendency to smooth over trouble between other dogs. I had some great experiences with them, and it really worked. I was very impressed. Has Shadow actually ever got into a fight? I mean, if what he does is just over enthusiastic squaring up to other boys, you might find if you just ignored him, he'd sort himself out. Particularly with a 10 month old male who is likely to be far too young to actually fight....can you give them something to do together? Even things like scattering treats on the floor when you let them off lead gets them being in each other's company and not obsessing about what the other dog is doing.
Since about last February David takes Charlie once a week on a group walk with our neighbours two black male working Labradors, their very elderly Staffie and children. Charlie was worried at first and would bark, he was fed treats for no barking, he was placed at the back of the group on lead where he felt more confident and gradually moved next to one of the boys, then in between etc. over months and months of this he was let off lead to mix in with the lads and they happily get along. Luckily for us Charlie really isn't really that interested in them but he does love the Staffie. These walks have absolutely helped Charlie's confidence round dogs especially males and when he meets other dogs out and about he is much better behaved and usually chooses to ignore them unless they are Spaniels We find it's an on lead issue rather than an off lead. Lots and lots of work is improving this daily Would Ben's owner be happy to meet you whilst walking along then for you or him to catch up, casually walk for a while see how it goes then you can judge if an off lead interaction is a good idea? I do this with a friend who has an extremely reactive/anxious Lab x Collie and it works a treat as there's no stopping, eye balling, sniffing etc. we just keep walking so there's no opportunity for any issues. It's tough when you don't get many opportunities to train and sort this out. Hope it goes well Fiona
Thank for the replies and advice. It's not as if they'd be "socialising" in the pub, as such, but the majority of the bars here are somewhat corridor-like, so in order to walk to and from the door, you'd have to pass within 5m of any other dog that's there. Not nice and spread out like a traditional English pub. The dogs are really good at settling by us (generally with us standing because they aren't the kind of places that have lots of tables to sit at) but would definitely get up to have a gander at any other dog walking by. Shadow has never been in what you'd really call a fight. He's been nasty to other dogs, that's for sure - UnceBob's Harvey being one, where he started trying to herd him and ended up grabbing at him. Harvey's too much of a softy to retaliate, but another dog might have. Other than that, there's only been lots of noise and open mouths. No blood or actual holding on. I find it really hard to let that continue, though. It sounds appalling and I wouldn't want either dog to escalate it and for either to get hurt. It's very different to when Willow tells other dogs off - that's a very short "watch it, mate!", which is over in less than a second. I just wouldn't know at what point to step in before things got out of hand, so I just stop it as soon as the noise starts! Treats on the floor might be an idea, as long as Ben isn't a resource guarder. Maybe having them "working" alongside each other, sitting nicely for a treat to be thrown might work even better, because they're using their minds, rather than potentially bumping into each other to hoover up that last treat on the floor. I can see trying them on lead as being a disaster. From what I saw yesterday, Ben isn't a good walker on lead and is big and strong (far taller than my two and rather stocky), so would definitely be lunging to get to Shadow, just from puppy exuberance. That would certainly wind Shadow up. At a distance, I can walk him past boys when he's on lead, but with any sort of proximity, it would be a challenge and I'm sure that the other owner wouldn't have the patience to stand there while I got on with my +R methods. I'll have a word with him when I next see him. Maybe I should go - without the dogs! - to the pub tonight to find him and talk it over. I'm sure I'll find him there....
Ok, well, working on his walking on by with other male dogs close would help a lot generally - I suppose you don't have many willing helpers.... More generally, it sounds like he needs to be off lead with a load of well socialised adult males and given the chance to sort himself out. I bet that's easier said than done there, too. You and Shadow need a holiday on Wimbledon Common! Hmm...well, perhaps somewhere a bit quieter than that at first....
Well, that's the thing. He was an angel when we walked at Virginia Water, which was massively busy. He met dogs of every breed, size, shape and sex, and there was only one (non) event, which was a spaniel that had a growl and snap at him, but he didn't start anything with anyone. The place we walk near my sister's house is generally busy-ish, in that you can keep away from other dogs if you wish, or walk by them. I used that to work on them not running over to strange dogs, very successfully, even though we were only there for a short time. This morning, he walked quite happily past a male dachshund that was off lead, without a second glance. Small dog, little interest! Sadly, though, you're right. Opportunities are very far and few between. It's not as if it's all doom and gloom. I made a massive mistake the other day; we were walking on a regular route near home and I saw, about 50m away up the hill, a black dog, about the size of a Lab. I just assumed it was their friend, Alfie, because it was the right sort of time that he gets walked there most days. So, I said to Shadow, "Where's Alfie? Say hi!", and he ran over to him. As soon as he got there, I realised it wasn't Alfie at all, but one of the village dogs that is really overbearing with Willow. I have never seen it up there before, but my heart sank. We're not the only people who have had problems with these dogs, that are allowed to run loose a lot of the time. The body language was up on toes, rather tense, but I blew my recall whistle and Shadow ran straight back to me, without anything happening at all. I was super proud of him - and super relieved! So he is able to be restrained in himself. I just can't rely on it! Anyone want to send their well-socialised adult males over here for some socialisation training? Hmm? I'll chuck in some free ski lessons!
Well, that's interesting. Charlie isn't a reactive dog - he is a silly dog, and will honk and tug and wag his tail ever hopeful to say hello - but he is still a lot better in busy places. He will happily ignore dogs, people, skateboards, you name it...on the Common then can get over excited on a quiet street because a single person, the only show in town, is walking along the other side of the road swinging a bag. There is a lot to be said, I reckon, for there being too much going on to fuss about. Er....that didn't apply to settling on a mat at ClickerExpo though!
Totally agree there is a lot to be said for too much going on and we certainly found that when we took Charlie into town about a year ago to a popular dog walking area and this was when he was at his most lead reactive stage, he's so much better now. Another occasion was last summer at our village flower, no issues at all just too much going on to focus on any dogs. Well done Shadow
