Well (unfortunately) Charlie would agree with you. But at least a harness is safe. God knows what the snapping action would be on a dog's neck if they lunged in a head collar. It makes me shudder to think about it. Did I say I'm not a fan of headcollars?
In my experience of using a Gencon years ago, they don't lunge when they have it on, that is the point
https://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/are-head-collars-on-dogs-dangerous-or-safe/ Sorry my iPad went loopy before I had chance to finish. I thought a professional opinion of the use of head collars might be of interest.
Here we go...should I respond by posting the Glasgow Dog Trainer on why these devices are aversive? No. Let's not. Let's assume they are safe and dogs love them. My answer to the question "do you think it's ok to use a device instead of training my dog?" is "No. Train your dog!". There we are, call me old fashioned.
I was waiting for my next group novice retriever class to post about me trying a gencon on Dexter but thought it may be helpful to write a quick summary here. I couldn't stop Dexter running in at speed when he saw a retrieve being thrown, I had him on harness and the handle of the lead wrapped around my wrist. I was running faster than I'd run in donkeys years until Dexter stopped dead at a sit in front of the trainer, I on the other hand just about managed to stop myself from being face planted. James the trainer quickly unwrapped the lead from me and said if Dexter did it again I was to just let go, he would not get the reward of the retrieve and I wouldn't get my wrist or anything else broken. A lady offered me the use of a gencon, I had no idea what she was talking about but she explained. James knowing my views and concerns about aversives, said no it was fine. We then had to remove Dexter's harness as it would be unsafe for him in the environment we were working in and having a small jump to go over so I then had Dexter on collar and lead. He worked well on his turn but waiting was hard work for him and me, I would walk him to the far end of the field but he has a radar that homes in on anything remotely looking like a thrown object and caught me out a number of times by turning his head round and going into orbit, I could do nothing. Eventually, I asked if I could try a gencon and a lady lent me hers. All I can say is halalulliah, instant calm dog that sat beautifully with the rest of the small group. He did not shut down, far from it. He did not lunge and I kicked myself for struggling for so long. I now have my own gencon for use in the group and I keep it in my pocket and put it on Dexter for a quick walk in the field or up the beach before I take it off for a retrieve to keep up the fun association with it. I've used it once to get out of a tricky situation calmly, whereas without it I'd have had a battle on my hands. Other dogs in the group apart from the one on the gencon had all progressed and been trained to walk beautifully on their slip leads. So if I were in your position, I'd work on desensitising Dexter to it and then use it if you feel the need to. It's no different to desensitising a puppy to his collar and lead.
I don't need one now, but I did use a head collar on Sam when he was a lot younger , albeit for a very brief period . He would walk beautifully on a very slack lead unless we were in a new environment when enthusiasm and excitement got the better of him . I don't use one now, but maybe I am just lucky in having a laid back dog , I don't know to be honest , but I wont criticise anyone who uses them, for short or longer periods .
Twiglet is superb at lead walking, perfect everywhere - loose lead, no pulling, walking nicely ahead as trained .... Until she knows we are going for a free run, then she's impossible! I know she's young yet, but it does go to show that excitement is the issue rather than training. I wouldn't use a head collar on a pet dog, no - but I do understand why some do. .
I feel, but don't let us go on about it that a head collar can be used to begin to train the dog, then be got rid of. I must admit I do admire your dedication and you are a good example for us all. I have learned such a lot since joining the Lab Forum. Just thought, what about using harness, is that teaching the dog loose heel work? Serious, not critical
A back fastening harness does not. It doesn't nothing to help train the dog. Although some people find this strange - that's why lots of people use them!
Overcoming excitement by training is called proofing your training! Although I do agree growing up and becoming less silly helps a lot.
Well, I think you may be over-thinking it Angela. Go with the flow. See how Dex is. If he's fine on a flat collar then that's great, if not, then do what you need to do. Its your holiday too and you shouldn't be totally miserable and strung-out for want of a simple tool. We all know you are committed to training, and you won't give up, but sometimes we all need a break, so don't beat yourself up if you feel you aren't getting there and need to use an "aid" sometimes. What's important is that you and Dex make the most of your trip. x (opinions are my own, apologies if not entirely +R compliant )
But...but...the reason Dex doesn't walk well in a group of dogs is because he doesn't often have chance to walk in a group of dogs! So, when Angela - finally, finally - has chance to train walking in groups of dogs she should....take a break! Really? No! She should train her socks off! Do I look at the world a bit differently, I wonder?
Not necessarily abandon it all, not at all. I would just worry that Angela felt she HAD to do it all and step up to the mark, put her money where her mouth is etc etc - it isn't that easy as we know. Unless I misunderstand it, the sole purpose of Angela's visit isn't to perfect Dex's training! And if she is on her own, a helper down, then it may not all be plain sailing. Having a "back up plan" (to me) would be a way of relieving some pressure. I certainly wouldn't criticise her if she felt she needed that extra "help". I hope no-one criticises me if I had to do that.
Yes and we love you for it. I'm with Jac though. Training is a very, very good thing but Angela is visiting for a myriad of reasons and some days may need management rather than training.
I think that one issue is that Dexter is going to be walked by family members. We all know what family members are like - they love their grand-dog or dog-nephew or whatever but ain't no way are they going to be maintaining loose lead walking training. They'll let the dog pull and they'll go along with him. Then there's other dogs and wildlife that Dexter might want to investigate or will get excited by. Angela needs to feel that Dexter will be safe when being walked by others, without having to rely on their training skills or dog savviness or vigilance. If equipment helps then I'd use it.
I don't have a problem with head collars. I mean, I used one for years with my previous dog. Yes, I failed at training loose lead walking with him, I tried with the knowledge I had at the time but I couldn't crack it. I would do better now with the clicker, etc, but oh well, water under the bridge. I think you should do whatever what works best for you, Angela. Realistically speaking, are you going to be in an environment where you are around lots of other dogs on a regular basis? Where you live you don't have to deal with this, so why tie yourself into a knot trying to train something that you, in all practicality, won't need to worry about. Unless you want to, of course, then train away!!
As far as I can see Angela is coming to the UK for a holiday to see her family and friends not a dog training holiday so she must do what is right for her and her dog. Sometimes it's just not about working your socks off 24/7 for your dog, to have a life is just as important as we all need a break. If using a head collar or a harness will help Angela keep Dexter calm and make her feel better then that's just fine it's her choice, it's not a criminal offence to use a training tool as she just want's to enjoy herself and walk Dexter, not too much to ask I for one would never criticise anyone for using any tool for training they see fit, I do myself as it's better than a dog being choked on a flat collar. Do what you see fit Angela it's really not up to anyone else and we all know just how hard you work with Dexter. xx
Well, Angela asked a question - if she didn't want different answers then she should have added "please only reply to me if you think it's ok I use a head collar on Dex".
@Dexter you say earlier in the thread that Dexter is the best behaved when you are out for a walk with other dogs so relax, but be prepared. Dex is bound to be excited when meeting new dogs and visiting new places with all the different sights and sounds in a totally different environment for him. If you have to revert to the head collar, fine. It's not the end of the world and he'll soon be back to a good loose lead walk with all the new distractions. Look forward to spending time with your family, friends and your walks with Dexter here in the UK, not stressing over what may happen.
