Just posted for a moan really. Ripple is on his 3rd go at the KC Bronze class, despite attending virtually every week he is unable to maintain a stay in class without rushing off to 'talk' to other dogs. Every day at home we practice 'stay', in lots of different situations with lots of different distractions with lots of success, but at school he can't even manage 5 seconds. Unfortunately this means the rest of the time at school is spent doing things that Ripple does really easily. I did originally feel that just being there with the other dogs was good for him, however this current class contains several collies that have really taken against Ripple leaping and barking at him unprovoked. Consequently we sit isolated from the rest of the class which, as far as I can see, makes it look like Ripple is the one at fault. Today I left just before the end as I couldn't stand it any more and I'm not sure about going back. Rant over.........
I do think we hear this quite often - young Labradors unable to concentrate in class, while other breeds of dog are a lot less sociable. It's a difficult environment for them, and while it is good to keep going and get them used to working around other dogs, if you are not enjoying it then there is no harm in doing something else (perhaps outside, with more space), and going back to class when they are a little older and more sensible.
You should always be getting something positive out of class. There's nothing wrong with taking a break until it's the right time to go back. Maybe try some 121 sessions with a very calm non-reactive stooge dog to bridge the gap between home training and class?
If it were me I would stop going if we weren't getting anything out of it and feeling isolated in the group. Are there any classes outside that you could do? We have had several problems with collies attacking Harley for no reason.....strange isn't it!
"But he/she will do it at home!" Dog trainers hear this from their students a lot. So much so that I recall one trainer saying he was going to get some t-shirts printed to hand out to everyone that said it - but then decided it would cost too much! And it makes sense if you think about it. Training in a safe/happy/familiar location with no distractions whatsoever compared to training in a relatively unfamiliar location with lots of distractions is a huge difference (I've seen TV programs where people are driven at high speed around a race track and asked to name 10 things beginning with the letter 'A' ... and they struggle!). I remember when we started doing the KC Bronze with Harv and he couldn't even manage 2 seconds! So, this is entirely understandable and not something that is unique to Ripple and you. Neither of you are doing anything wrong, it just takes time and practice. That said, there is nothing wrong with taking a break for a while. Also, as suggested, you may find it easier to gradually build up the level of distractions - one other dog at a distance, then gradually closer, then two dogs, .... and before you know it you'll have Ripple in a solid Stay while the rest of the class are walking around him Edited to add: Yes, most border collies seem to take a dislike to Harv too. Very strange.
I experienced similar difficulties with Molly so gave up bronze when she was about 9 or 10 months old and did about 6 months of gun dog classes. Then we went back to the original class and did bronze, and then later silver and gold, so I'd say try something else at least for a while. Stay was also our bugbear and I found leaving Molly in a down instead of a sit made it much easier for her.
Thank you for all your replies - glad it's not just Ripple and collies. Also because we are stuck at bronze and everyone else has come up from puppy class it feels a little cliquey (is this even a word? ) . I have come down with a rotten cold overnight so that might explain why I felt so fed up yesterday but I do think there have been lots of valid points made here. A few weeks ago I was given the name of a trainer who does 121 sessions and also includes his own gundogs if it can help with the training, I might get in touch with him. The thing that put me off him was that he recommended a slip lead for a similar overexcitable lab and I'm not sure that's something I would be comfortable with, but I understand that overall he's a positive reinforcement trainer.
We also left our class because of this reason , poppy was always made out to be the naughty one. we spent more time in the naughty corner than out I was so stressed and so was she. we now go to a class that is in a field we do a bit of training and a bit of agility. My trainer is very laid back its a lovely class. Poppy is allowed to be poppy
Take a break but don't give up. Ask your trainer if you could do some one to one sessions in the same place then possibly bring in another well behaved dog who won't be so distracting. Or see if you can find another trainer. We are now regulars at a dog club and have our session for bronze/silver after the puppies. The puppy class is always busy and they regularly pass with their certificates. There have been many who try out the bronze class and although the trainers are cheerful, helpful and relaxed most drop out after a few weeks. Homer has his bronze and working towards silver, he just needs to walk on a lead outside a bit better!
@SteffiS good luck with the 121 trainer, as others have said if you aren't getting anything out of it don't go. I know what you mean about the clickiness, seriously irritating and rude, used to happen in the class I attend.
due to some problems recently i started Rory on some 121 training then put him class with one other dog and its been great for him. When he's gained a lot of confidence I'm going to try him in a larger class. It worked well for me hope it does for you too.
We 've had some 1:1s which were good and will go back to class in August! If you are not enjoying it, there is no point. 1:1 has given me loads to focus on at home and out and about, so for now we are working on that. We struggle with sit stay in class too. But she sits in the situations I need her too at home and going through gates on our walks, so I'm not too fussed about it at the moment. That can come later and we can slowly build up to.
@SteffiS I have never attended training classes with Juno until quite recently when we started an APDT Good Companion course for fun. Our class has a maximum of 6 dogs/trainers allowing plenty of room between each dog in the hall. If a dog has trouble settling or is reactive (and one of our dogs is very reactive) a barrier is formed from a puppy enclosure is place around their area with blankets covering the structure to enable the dog to calm and pay attention to their owner/trainer. On the first week of the course there were three sets of barriers set up to help the dogs and there were only four dogs there Over a few weeks though even our very reactive dog has improved hugely and no longer requires a barrier as long as other dogs don't come too close which we all work to prevent. Due to the low numbers on the course we have plenty of room in the hall to work on our training so the dogs are either working on a behaviour - door manners for example, or are sitting quietly while our trainer demonstrates or talks us through the next manoeuvre then helps us individually. As we tend to be busy throughout the class or ensuring our dogs are quiet there is no 'chatting' between owners either at the start or during the lesson. At the end of the class we all leave individually with our dogs so have no mad rush for the door and no-one hangs around to chat. I've previously only had 121 sessions which I found to be the best way forward for us to be able to work on what was important to me and in different places and with different distractions.
Thank you everyone . You have all made it much easier to make the right decision for Ripple (and me). I have always stuck with KC classes for my previous dogs so felt I should do the same for Ripple, but I can see now that a 121 approach with him is much more likely to be the right way. Just waiting for some available dates from the trainer now.
We are going to see the trainer on Thursday afternoon, although I'm looking forward to it I'm still a bit worried how it will go. I also had the following conversation with OH this morning: Him "you'll be able to tell the trainer Ripple does a three and a half minute down stay" Me "no he doesn't" "He does for me" "How do you get him to do that?" "I just tell Ripple to stay and time him until he gets up" "You don't give him a release cue?" "No, he just gets up and goes off" Me - speechless , is there any point in me even trying to teach Ripple, I need to get OH trained first .
Heh, good luck with that! Dog training is far easier than OH training! Or, you could do what Julie told her OH - "I'll keep buying new puppies until I get one you don't do that to"....
Bwahaha. Today, OH was coming back from a walk with Charlie, and I was leaving with Betsy. OH came up the (quite long) flight of steps outside our house and offered to carry Betsy down the steps for me. I told Charlie to 'wait' at the top and followed OH down. As OH went back up the steps, I said tell Charlie release and give him a treat. OH tossed Charlie a treat, Charlie got up, I said but, but, what about the release?, and OH said, Oh release, Charlie, release - long after Charlie had wandered off to pee my geranium pot.
I know what you mean about OH's....my OH just cant see the connection between him playing "rough-house" with Bailey and Bailey then going and nipping him when he wants to play...am going blue in the face trying to explain why I now rarely get nipped (folding arms, turning back and being a tree, rewarding when calm) and he is still a favourite chew toy
Too funny!!!! Why not have your husband do the training class with Ripple instead of you? You could watch (and video!). I trained Snowie at class for the first 1.5 years. My husband refused to come to that class because he said the school reminded him of military training and he said it went against all his values (50-60 dogs on the field marching up and down to heel with instructors shouting commands). I felt the same, but I was also that dunce dog handler in the class with the dog who would not learn while everyone else's dogs were sitting/staying/retrieving perfectly, and I felt so stupid that I could not see how bad the class was for us. When I eventually found a lovely school (similar to the one @MaccieD describes, where everyone is quietly doing their own training while the instructor walks around to each person/dog), my husband said he was ready to train Snowie. What a world of difference it made! He became very interested in training and made every effort to continue the new habits at home. It was also very insightful observing him train Snowie and recognizing where I was going wrong!
