Re: Bad lead walking today I'm with Rachael on this one - I do much the same with Simba....let him sniff, but if it's prolonged I pull him away. He does do a lot of sniffing, mind - much more nose-oriented than my previous dogs were. So this is a little new for me in that way. It's not hugely disruptive to our walk, but on the other hand I don't particularly like pulling with all my might on him, as I have to do once and awhile - like tonight, when we discovered a cat on our walk.... :
Re: Bad lead walking today Thanks Rachel and Lisa I have had success this morning in getting him to walk with someone walking on the other side of him - so cutting off his route to some of the distractions which he wants to sniff - the article on lead walking on the main site suggests walking them with a wall on one side - but a wall is more of a distraction than a familiar person, it seems! I THINK that the road and pavements are just much more distracting than I thought, being covered in new types of smells (he will walk at heel off lead on the beach, and familiar fields, without the constant stopping) and the vast majority of his walking has not been on roads and pavements because we've done the off lead stuff first. We did a whole walk with a person at his side, this morning, with just a few stops. This afternoon, I am going to try a person walking at the side of him, then stepping back for a few paces etc. So introducing the distractions more gradually, bringing the person back if he is sniffing too much. Thanks for your thoughts about the harness. Yes, I think this is worth thinking about and I will. I won't walk him on the slip lead, because he does lunge (although hasn't for the last couple of walks, and walked passed several dogs this morning although I upped the C&T to 2 steps without lunging). Although off lead the harness doesn't bother him one little bit, he trots along to heel as happy as anything.
Re: Bad lead walking today Julie, I think you are doing fine with the clicker. To get 30 steps of walking to heel on a loose lead with a puppy in a distracting environment is a huge achievement. Even if the is not the norm yet, you are definitely heading in the right direction. Is there anywhere you could practise his that is less interesting to your pup? Somewhere where you can put in lots of directional changes and variations of speed to keep it interesting for the dog? All of my dogs are much better at walking to heel off the lead than on the lead. : Luckily I don't need them to walk on a lead very often so I don't lose any sleep over it, but nevertheless their lead walking is pretty shocking. ??? Tilly, it is always easy to say 'Go and see a professional trainer'. I want to say it quite often especially when I feel that pro trainer could probably pinpoint the reason for a particular problem within minutes and find a solution for it which is inevitably something the handler needs to do differently. An example for that would be the delivery problem you had with your dog. Nevertheless I sat down and typed an answer that might be of use to you. Yes, a professional trainer would have probably sorted your problem but you had asked the question on this forum to the forum members who might have had the same problem.
Re: Bad lead walking today I agree with everyone else's statements that there is no need to see a professional trainer, you are doing fine the way you are doing things julie. Many people have suggested to seek professional training with barley and his many problems but we never have and he has made some massive improvements, all through basically trial and error into which method works best for him, we tried the clicker but when out on walks he payed no attention to it at all, at home he does. It would have been easy to get a professional trainer to sort him out, but 1 it was too expensive and 2 it was not right for him. I have put many hard hours of work into him and he has improved greatly, yes he still has some problems and some issues that are a work in progress, but no dog is perfect. Julie i think that you are doing very well, and making good progress, you find a way to solve the problem that suits you and your dog and stick with it
Re: Bad lead walking today Thanks all for the encouragement, I've just taken him to run an errand (just 2 mins along the road and back) and we got there and back without drama! Small steps, small steps...
Re: Bad lead walking today Julie, professional gundog trainers will do all their basic obedience work in a yard, the size of a normal back garden. Very few distractions making it easier for the pup to hold its concentration. I know that in the real world where people need to get from A to B with their dog on a lead that might not always be possible. For those times I would try and find a lead, harness or head collar that suits you and your dog and which makes it difficult for the dog to pull or lag behind. Then concentrate on short fun training sessions with either a flat collar and lead or a slip lead in a calm controlled environment. That's how I would proceed anyway.
Re: Bad lead walking today Thanks Heidrun - I thought I had got a bit further than that, as we've had so much success off lead - I'm really proud of him on the beach off lead, for example, surrounded by other dogs, rotten sea weed, etc. he'll walk by me fine. But we've gone every day for a month now, and put the hours in... It's just not transferring to on lead, on pavements and roads, for me as easily as I thought it would - with the exception that he does not pull, just gets completely distracted by the squashed chip, lampost, step, dustbin..... So, yes, you are right - I'll have to remove some of the distractions. I guess I thought a pavement and road might not be too much, but it obviously is!
Re: Bad lead walking today You are very kind to Charlie, Julie. I am thinking that if this were my dog, I would just walk forward briskly for a certain length of time, not allowing him to stop, until I got to a certain area where I had decided was the place he could stop and sniff. Or am I oversimplifying things???? I just dont understand really why it is you cant get him to walk forwards without constant stopping... Am I right in thinking you live in London? So you have to be able to walk along streets and pavements to a park, which is your designated area for him to stop, sniff and play. We had a real problem at one point with Pops not wanting to get in the car (other half shut her head in the door by accident one time, so not really surprising!!!!!!! ). The situation got worse and worse, until she eventually didnt even want to walk past the car, then even became nervous when we put her lead on to go out of the door, in case we were going to put her in the car... We tried all sorts of things; talking gently to her, putting treats in the car, then putting higher value treats in the car, feeding her in the car, putting her favourite toys in the car, lifting her into the car, associating car rides with going nice places... It was becoming a nightmare. Eventually I asked a very experienced friend what they thought. He looked at me as if I was mad, said "tell her to get in the car like you KNOW she is going to do it, close the door and drive off". I was really rather annoyed at his know-it-all attitude, but then Poppy nearly strangled herself when the other half tried to put in to the car and hurt his back while doing it. I was so fed up by the whole thing, that later that day I just put her on the lead, walked up to the car, opened the door, said "get in" like it was the most normal thing in the world... after a moment's hesitation, blow me down if she didnt get in!!! Now she has no problem whatsoever with the car. I think she had wound herself up more and more in the situation. Well, I realize your situation is not the same - I'm just thinking aloud really and wondering whether a bit more determination on your part and less focus on Charlie and his wants might work better. Worth a try at least! Just assume he is going to walk alongside you to the park (or wherever), and that you are not going to stop for him to sniff at cigarette butts or whatever on the way... . It's your walk too, after all, and you are the one in charge, not him! (Easy to say, I know...)
Re: Bad lead walking today Whoops ,I stayed out of this.....as you know,I have enough to say on other topics but NOTHING useful to contribute to well behaved lead walking However I am guilty of saying 'it will come eventually' and that isn't because I'm not interested in helping.I love to help and at the moment have the time to help,but lacking a bank of experience sometimes prevents this.In place I try to make my contribution in support,especially if its a tricky or sad problem....people have been so kind and helpful to me,lending support is sometimes the only way I can return this,I know that's not required on a forum,but its something I feel I like to do ,thankyou everyone . Julie I know hard you have worked with Charlie,I also know and admire that you research and question so much to give him the best start....and that you are totally doing your best and in my opinion a wonderful job with him. There's going to be a lot in a dexters life that is not 100% right .....he's our pet first and foremost and our first dog at that so there will be things that are not perfect and we will put up with,I hate to think it would make him unhappy....... I hope I've not created disharmony by speaking up I just wanted to put my side across to indicate that sometimes less experienced members do like to join in but can't always do so on practical level. Hope everybody's dogs are well Best wishes Angela x
Re: Bad lead walking today Thanks Karen, thanks Angela Angela, you always contribute! I learn something everytime you post. Karen - we normally live in London, now we are in Cornwall. We've been driving to off lead areas in London so Charlie has done no road and pavement walking in London at all. But in Cornwall, Charlie is now required to walk on pavements and roads around the town, and that's where my problems became evident - I just assumed all the off lead heel walking, and on lead heel walking, on the beach and fields would just transfer to roads and pavements. When he stops, in order to keep walking, I have to partly drag him with his paws scrabbling at the road to keep stopped, and I was really reluctant to do this. It's just not a case of walking on purposely and he'll follow me. I have pulled him to get him started forward a few times now (after giving him a couple of chances with "let's go" or a lure), and he does move on quicker now, which I reward immediately, and this seems be helping. Have just taken him with me down the road to post a letter, on his slip lead, and he was perfect even passed another dog - like he was off lead. : So the harness has a big part in this I think. So now I wonder whether I dare use the slip lead a bit further.
Re: Bad lead walking today [quote author=JulieT link=topic=2356.msg23055#msg23055 date=1377697654] Have just taken him with me down the road to post a letter, on his slip lead, and he was perfect even passed another dog - like he was off lead. : So the harness has a big part in this I think. So now I wonder whether I dare use the slip lead a bit further.[/quote] Brilliant (honestly) From what you have just written see no reason why you would ever want to put the harness on again
Re: Bad lead walking today I agree ,try it Julie ,he's never loved the harness when i think back,I love how they look on their slip leads....it's a long way off for us! X
Re: Bad lead walking today Peculiarly, I think Lilly prefers a harness. She is always dipping her head when we loop on her slip lead - this is her normal lead, the harness just if we are doing "work". She is very nose-driven, and does pull and sniff. I do find that I can pull her away and she digs her heels in. If I give her a count of 2 secs before moving off, she responds much better. I know they aren't "supposed" to sniff, and she should be focussed on me at all times : but she does it, it isn't overly bothersome, and we adjust to it. I know this isn't help, but just what happens with us.
Re: Bad lead walking today Hello all, I was told that a slip lead is for non pulling dogs and only for dogs that walk to heel. We have a lot of new puppies in our village and they are mostly on slip leads and are pulling like crazy and gasping for breath . That is brilliant Julie that Charlie is walking well on one and maybe take him out for short walks and gradually build up and then eventually you won't need the harness I feel like Angela I don't really have any experience to offer, but I believe that this forum offers huge support and encouragement to people that need it and I know I certainly do. The people on here have kept me going during some very difficult times with Charlie only ever offering their experience and giving me great advice which I have kept going with and am seeing definite results and a huge change in Charlie. On the subject of dog trainers, I went to 2 "Gundog Trainers" and did not have good experiences with either, the first one I don't even consider worth talking about because he was barbaric and the second took us into a yard for 5 minutes then took us out into the wide open rabbit country, then made me walk round a game bird enclosure during a very wet day up hill, Charlie pulled to get to the pen I had to let him go as I almost fell down the mudslide of a hill, he then ran into an electric fence, and that was my only visit at £40.00. To top it all she suggested an E collar for Charlie and oh did I protest but she kept on suggesting it for "a dog like Charlie". She also patronised me for working through Total Recall whistle training, "oh keep going if you like with your juicy bits of chicken but ....." "Yes I will thank you". This forum is FREE and it was the best thing I ever did for Charlie who is fast becoming a well behaved boy and without it I truly don't know what we would have done. If you don't ask questions you don't learn and I know I am very guilty of asking rather a lot of questions - sorry Anyway Julie what I wanted to say but I have rambled on, is you keep going as you see fit, you know Charlie and you are doing a marvellous job with him . Karen, we had the same problem with Charlie with the car and did exactly the same as you "get in" worked like a dream Not wanting to rock any boats this just my humble opinion. Helen xx
Re: Bad lead walking today Amy pulls on the lead still, I stop turn etc. Off lead and sometimes on the way home she will "heel" does this mean we are getting there slowly? We have a slip lead but not used it yet. I haven't kept up with this post so sorry for posting here now....how do the slip leads work exactly? Just give me a link if its already been said. ???
Re: Bad lead walking today I wouldnt use a slip lead on a dog that regularly pulls. It can really hurt their necks and do damage. We use one now most of the time, but didnt until Poppy was really reliable at walking to heel. I was even worried about using it at training at one point, because she was so keen to launch herself after each and every dummy... but now that she is steadier, I use a slip lead all the time for training. Julie, I am certain you will get there with Charlie on road walks without any great problems - especially since he walks so well off the lead, and agree with your method of rewarding him when he does what you want. I wonder, does he really understand that you dont want him to stop and sniff? I know with my old dogs a gruff 'no' and a swift yank on the lead could really snap them out of it when they were totally engrossed in the delights of the local lamp post... (obviously not a pull that would hurt, just one that says 'come on now!').
Re: Bad lead walking today Jade - a slip lead is basically a rope choke lead, I have only ever used it before when I know Charlie will stay at heel, but still need him on a lead in case of emergency (eg watching fireworks in the front garden, or when he comes with me to take out the rubbish etc). Charlie doesn't pull, but does sometimes lunge and I worry what a slip lead might do to his neck if he lunges. Karen - I'll give that some thought, I think you must be right, he doesn't know he can't stop to sniff. Well, all the time, I don't want him never to be able to sniff - I'm thinking about a "go sniff" cue to let him know it's ok to have a sniff around, like "go play" releases him from heel off lead, but "let's go" means forward and forward now. I think I'll get "let's go" sorted though before I attempt "go sniff"!
Re: Bad lead walking today [quote author=JulieT link=topic=2356.msg23161#msg23161 date=1377720136] a slip lead is basically a rope choke lead [/quote] Nope its definitely not. Unless you train the dog to use it like a choke lead :'( sadly many people do. The same could be said for any kind of restraint, I see it every day in life, be it a collar and lead, a harness or a piece of baler twine....... Train the dog and have a happy dog, don't train it and risk it injuring itself no matter what you choose to walk it with. My vet actually said to me not that long ago, "oh I am so glad to see someone using a sensible lead for a change" that was a slip lead......
Re: Bad lead walking today I have been wondering about this "slip lead" too - it's not a term we use here. I thought for a moment as I was reading this thread that it was what we call a 'choke chain" (made out of a metal chain), which really confused me as I didn't think anyone here would use one of those?? So this is something made out of rope? I'm keeping out of the discussion on sniffing...as I said Simba definitely is a " sniffer" but honestly I don't really care at this point....not a huge deal for me and we have SO much else to work on first. He doesn't pull on the lead and if he's walking ahead of me or if I have to tug (okay, sometimes pull) to get him away from a sniff, well, whatevs (as my daughter would say ). I'm not losing any sleep over it.... At some point I'll work on it, maybe, but not now.
Re: Bad lead walking today [quote author=Lisa link=topic=2356.msg23206#msg23206 date=1377754627] I have been wondering about this "slip lead" too - it's not a term we use here. I thought for a moment as I was reading this thread that it was what we call a 'choke chain" (made out of a metal chain), which really confused me as I didn't think anyone here would use one of those?? So this is something made out of rope? [/quote] Lisa - I understand that slip leads are generally used when working dogs because they don't wear a collar that could get caught on things. I think like a lot of things, they might be fine in the hands of the experienced, but as a novice I'm very wary of them. Like I said, I have one but previously have used it only around the house and garden, because it's so quick to take on and off, and Charlie doesn't fuss about it. Here is a picture of one: slip lead by JulieTandCharlie, on Flickr The association of pet dog trainers says this about slip leads: " Unless used correctly, and at the correct times, slip-leads are essentially the same as choke-chains, and carry similar risks and dangers. It should be borne in mind that slip-leads are for emergency purposes only, (and dog sports such as Gundog and Agility) but it is essential that they should always be loose, and used only by dogs which can sit or walk beside their handler correctly. A slip lead should never be used to train a dog to walk correctly on a lead." I guess they are fine and useful in the hands of the experienced handler, but as a novice with a puppy I'm pretty wary, with good reason I think.
