Hello, I am new to this site so I would be really grateful if you could help me. I am looking to buy a Labrador puppy so I emailed a lady about some puppies she had advertised and asked her if any were still available and if the parents had been health tested. She said "as for hip and elbow scores, the sire has a hip score 6/3 and elbows are 0/0. I have not had my dam scored as yet and do not plan to. Even if I was to have her hip and elbows scored it won't change anything as you can have perfect hip and elbow scoring parents and still have puppies born with hip issues. This is true of all breeds. You can't predict everything perfectly even with the above scores. To have hip scoring done the dogs need to be put under anaesthetic and it cant be done until a dog is at least a year old" She said all puppies from this litter had been reserved but she has another bitch (aged 2yrs 8 months) due soon if I was interested. I asked what the bitch's temperament was like. She said "her temperament is great, still puppy like, soft as butter, in fact a little stand offish until she knows you which is why I bred her to give her confidence" I'm not sure if I'm being overly cautious but some things just don't feel right with her responses. If she had the sire health tested , then why not the bitch and do you really breed a bitch to increase her confidence. What do you all think. Am I worrying over nothing?
Hey, It sounds VERY similar to a response I received, when I was looking, I went with my gut and left the breeder as ALL advise I had previously read said that responsible breeders should have BOTH parents health tested. What area are you in and what area was the breeder from out of curiosity. As I said, I personally walked away from the breeder who had a similar response and kept uip with my search and found a very responsible breeder in the end. Keep with your search, It will be worth it for your puppies health and your own personal conscience. Normally your gut is right and you are not worrying over nothing.
P.S Welcome to the Forum, My puppy is 11 weeks old and this forum has been amazing, stick around for when you find the perfect puppy for you x
@kat751 Ah no was just wondering if it was the same breeder, as the response was almost identical but im up north. Keep with it, Have you searched KC register as you can often find a good start point, just because they are KC registered though doesnt mean they will of had health tests done Good luck, are you looking for specific sex/color?
It just isn't true that the chances of having a dysplastic dog is the same if one of the parents has hip or elbow dysplasia or both do not. It is true that even with great health test results, the puppies can still have problems. But your chances of having a healthy puppy is higher if both parents have good health results. This is from the statistics here: http://www.offa.org/ed_faqs.html In this very large breeding study (primarily Labrador Retrievers, Golden Retrievers, Rottweilers, and German Shepherd Dogs), the rate of ED more than doubled when one parent was affected, and more than tripled when both parents were affected. In any breed where the overall percentage of affected dogs is already lower than the percentage that can be expected when a dog affected with ED is bred to a normal dog (26.1% - 31.3%), one would find few circumstances in which progress can be made by breeding a dog affected with ED.
Do be careful if you restrict yourself to a colour - the inbreeding coefficient for dogs that are breed for a 'special' colour, is often high. There is still a problem with Chocolates, although it's much reduced these days. I do wonder about the latest 'thing' for fox reds. So if you want a fox red, make sure you check the CoI, and the EBVs for the litter (actually, you should do so for any litter, but especially if the breeder has restricted choice of mates because they want a particular colour and there are fewer of those dogs around).
Thank you for your feedback @JulieT I have been researching getting a puppy for a few years now and I have noticed the fox red do seem to be getting quite popular so your advice makes sense. I hadn't really thought about the problems that may be associated with the 'latest thing' as you put it. There are so many things to consider and I am really trying to make the best decision possible which is why it has took me so long to buy a puppy!
Nothing wrong with loving a colour, and not surprising other people love beautiful colours either. I'm sure there are loads of good fox red litters around, just be careful. I found my last puppy very, very hard to buy. My first dog ended up with cruciate problems, and some knock on joint problems, and it was very difficult for me to decide to get another puppy. But....you just have to be as careful as possible and then go for it. Best of luck.
HIps and elbows are just the start, you know there are other health tests commonly done? Eyes and heart. EIC and CNM would be nice. I'm in Canada so I hope someone from the UK will say what others as you do some we don't, I think. Also check the health guarantee, some will make conditions and some provide much better guarantees than others do.
Health checks are really key. Otherwise, why choose a breeder over a rescue puppy or dog who needs a good home? She's right, there are no guarantees, but health checks and careful selection of a sire and dam combo can help stack the deck in your favor for a healthy dog. That's really what you are paying for when choosing a good breeder, the ability to see all the genetics behind it (just my opinion). Honestly, if a breeder said to me what this one said to you, I'd make a big cross through her name and never look back. What you've quoted says to me, "I have old-fashioned ideas about how to build up my dog's confidence and an usual definition of "good temperament", I breed my dogs before a year old, can't be bothered to do/pay for the most basic health checks and I pretty much have litters on the ground constantly." Oh, and if you ask a question she doesn't like, she'll intimidate you into shutting up about it. I know this is a harsh judgement based on a couple comments, but it's giving me the icky vibes. About the temperament "soft as butter but standoffish" (because you asked), that seems contradictory. That would put me off as well, but I really like dogs that are confident about meeting new people and friendly with pretty much everyone. To me, "standoffish" and "Lab" don't seem to fit together, but I'm no expert here at all, never even having had a Lab. If someone said this to me about a Rottie, I would think it was code for "lacks confidence and is poorly socialized". I'll say this for both of us, as I'm still looking too... there surely have to be better options out there!
This woman is breeding without health testing her bitch - who is under a year old. No, no and no again. That is very poor indeed, both for the puppies and for the bitch. Just walk right away. There are lots of good breeders around; your instincts were absolutely right, this person is not one of them.
Confession time. When I bought Stanley I was clueless. Literally walked into the house, had some cuddles & walked out the deposit lighter. I met his mum, & saw a photo of his dad. I was told there would be a kc registered certificate when we picked him up. No health checks or anything. When we picked him up we were told that the certificate wasn't ready and we would receive it in the post. Have we received a certificate? Of course not! Looking back now, I can't believe I didn't do more research and get a proper reputable breeder and make sure everything was OK. In all honesty, it never entered my head. I'm annoyed that I paid for a puppy that clearly isn't a KC Registered dog but to be honest, that's the least of my worries. Now I worry about his health more than anything. Sometimes I also wonder if that's why he's so small, he's probably part Jack Russell or something But I'd definitely want all info now if I was you! Don't make the same mistakes I did, but it sounds like you've already got your head in the right place
I think you've had the best advice above. Run, run like the wind! I went about things completely the wrong way, too - I happened to be present at the birth of mine, and that made me want to have one. I ended up with two. As it turns out, the parents' hips and elbow scores are fine, and they both have good eyes. They have a low CoI and good EBV. But they weren't tested for other things that I would like to see included if I were doing it again. You're obviously smarter than me and are doing good research, so trust that and trust yourself to make the right choice. Good luck with your search and let us know how you get on!
