It's been awhile since I've had to ask for help so here it is.. So Stryker is just a week shy of being 5 months old. His recall training was going really well and I never had any issues with it until recently (about 3 weeks now). Every time I used his recall command 'Come' he always came to my side, sat and I gave him a treat regardless of what he was doing. Now when I use the recall command he doesn't even look at me or come to my side. If he does I put my hand out with his treat to give it to him and he takes off running without even attempting to take his treat. He doesn't get punished and if he does it's always a firm NO and that seems to work. I have even tried starting over. A few short sessions in the house but even that isn't working. I've avoided making this topic for awhile because I thought maybe it was just a phase and he would quickly grow out of it but now he's starting to run out of the yard. I really don't want to lock him up in the yard because I want him to be able to run the entire property but now with him starting to run out of my property which he hasn't done until the other day, I don't know what to do. I know you all will have some good advice. Thank you.
Hi there It isn't unusual for a dog of 5 months plus to start ignoring a recall - what you had was a puppy recall, not a trained recall. It's dead easy to teach tiny pups to do all sort of things. Mainly because they think their new humans are the Sun, Moon and Stars. Then they grow up a bit, become less dependent, and suddenly sniffing that leaf is more interesting than running to Mum/Dad. So that bit is nothing to worry about (well, you have to worry enough to get on with training a proper adult recall but that's all). The bit about him avoiding treats from you hand is a bit odd though. I'd give some thought as to why he is doing that - although I'm not quite sure whether you mean you are rewarding a recall or you are holding out a treat to get a recall. Either way, it seems like something unpleasant has happened when you offer a treat. Dog's minds work in funny ways, and things you think are 'normal' might be things that a dog learns to avoid. So, if you always put on a lead and end a walk after saying 'come' (just for example) 'come' might mean 'end of walk' and giving a treat doesn't overcome that. If a firm NO works, it's a punishment. If it doesn't work, it isn't. It's not possible for it not to work and not be a punishment unless you have positively trained NO to mean something. Eg turn towards me. (I tend not to believe people that claim that have done this, it would be much more obvious to choose a different sound). It doesn't matter if you give a treat for obeying NO. That doesn't stop it being punishing. You might have a sensitive dog on your hands...both my dogs would ignore NO quite happily. No matter how cross I sounded. They don't find it punishing at all (so I just look like a complete incompetent if I ever say it, so I try not to).
By punishment I mean physically. I've only lost my temper really one time and gave a little swat but that was a long time ago and was nicely informed through one of my other topics never to do that so I don't. NO as a punishment has always worked and I don't ever use it unless he is chewing on something he's not suppose to. I would use the recall 'Come' he would come and sit by my side and I would then offer the treat. It's at that point when I go to offer the treat that he takes off running. If he comes to my side at all anymore. So how does one train as an adult differently than a puppy?
Here is an article that explains why you have no say in what is a punishment for YOUR dog. http://www.thelabradorsite.com/punishment-in-dog-training/ Well, it sounds like you offering him food is a cue for him to run away from you. That's a bit strange. So you need to work out why he is doing that. Try to observe him through the day, try to work out why he would do that. Is it the treat, or is it your hand? (Don't take that the wrong way just because we've been talking about punishment, dogs become collar/hand shy for all sorts of reasons, most often just because their freedom comes to an end as a result). Is it something that happens in his routine that he finds aversive? If you drop the treat, does he take it? Etc. you need to work out what is causing him to avoid you if you hold out a treat. It's about proofing your training, although it's also not unusual to have to go right back to square one and retrain the cue from scratch. (Leaving aside the treat thing) Before, when your dog was a tiny puppy, he didn't want to leg it out of your yard and leave you. Now, he does. So you have to 'proof' your recall against him wanting to leg it out of your yard. (By the way, a fence is also a very good idea). You also need to work on your dog focussing on you - previously, as a baby puppy he was pretty much completely focussed on you, now you have to train this. And you also have to build your relationship with your dog as an adult.
If I place the treat at my feet he will come and take it. Yes many of times I have called him in using the 'Come' command so maybe he just isn't ready to come in. I do have a fence but I leave the gate open for him to go as he wants to either the front or the back. I'll reply more as I need to run up to the store at the moment.
I have solved the mystery of why he will not recall when using the 'Come' command. When I returned from the store Stryker was all excited. While petting him I said "Come" and he ran with his ears and tail tucked. That told me right away that it had to be a physical sign. I did this two more times and each time had the same reaction. I went inside and made a few phone calls and discovered that one of the people I had trusted to look after Stryker has confessed to smacking Stryker twice after using the 'Come' command around the time I started noticing his failure to respond. Said person is no longer allowed around my dog and has been told that they are not allowed over on my property unless invited by me. Now I need to take the time and start over and help Stryker get over this fear of being hit when he hears that command. It'll take time but at least I know what the problem is and I hope with time he'll realize he wont be hit.
Oh Lordy. That's awful that someone you trusted has acted that way. I am glad you have got to the bottom of it though - I think you'll need to get rid of the cue 'come' and start again with something else, 'here' or a whistle.
My goodness Stryker, you must be pretty upset at that. Julie is quite right, start the recall again using a different cue (and never let that person near your puppy again).
I just want to say how sorry I am to hear about what happened to Stryker. I can't believe that somebody caring for your pup would do such a thing.
Sorry Stryker has had to suffer this unkindness, and judging from his reaction, it must have been pretty bad. Glad you solved it though, and now have a clear way forward. Do lets us know how you get on.
I just don't get it... Why do people think it's ok to hit animals as a punishment let alone an animal that doesn't belong to them.. Been up since 5am, started working with Stryker about an hour later. I have been using the 'Come' command because I don't want him to be afraid of that word as it's a common word he'll hear often. I got him taking the food from my hand and he is responding to it nicely as expected. He still hesitant when hearing that command and then coming in to the house but I'll keep working at it as it will take some time to break that fear he has now. Thanks again for the support
Stryker has become a very troublesome boy. I know that things will get better but I feel as if I am constantly hitting my head against a wall with him, a very hard brick wall. He no longer shows fear when he hears the word come but I can't help but think that all these behavior issues are related to the smacking incident. Recall has collapsed completely. No matter what I try he ignores me. His chewing on things has gotten expensive. - His latest apatite delight was my wallet. Destroying everything inside ranging from old pictures, Bank card, Social Security card, Medical insurance cards, Drivers license, about $7.00 in cash and my wallet itself. - A power cord to my electric shaver, A power cord for my phone, expensive computer headset, The arm on the computer chair, Clothes and shoes. - Anything and everything he can find. He's back to going to the bathroom inside. He runs off every chance he gets. If I turn my back for a second, he's gone and I have to go track him down. I am trying really hard but I am so stressed out at this point due to his issues and other issues I am dealing with that I have (ashamed to even admit this) asked my sister to come take him off my hands for awhile until things in my life have settled down. I know things will get better over time but it really feels like he belongs to somebody else and has never had a day of training in his life.
I'm really sorry that you feel like everything is going to pot with Stryker. If you need a break from him and trust your sister to keep up with his training then that's a really sensible decision. We've all had expensive lessons at the hands (mouths) of our pups, and it's always our fault for not keeping our possessions out of reach. Xena chewed up my daughter's very $$ tablet but fortunately the screen cracked (didn't break entirely) and although unsightly, it can still be used. We've had many more things eaten and destroyed, none so expensive as that tablet. Power cords just have to be tucked out of reach or unplugged once you've used them. OH had to perform surgery on the vacuum cord (lucky he's handy) and I now put the vacuum away after using it. Does Stryker have access to your whole house? If he's channelling Houdini then maybe think about restricting his space. OH whacked together 3 gates/barriers - one across the hallway where the bedrooms and bathroom are, one at the top of the stairs so that she can't get to the workshop and foyer, and one across the kitchen (to keep her out if I'm cooking something fiddly and don't want to watch for a counter surfer). Our house is legitimately small, so the pooch really only has access to the open plan living/kitchen, and the laundry where tree back door is. I can never not know where she is, so there's no anxiety on that front. I have no advice on the toilet training other than it sounds like you need to go right back to basics with him (taking him out every 20 minutes and rewarding heavily for success). I'm sure others will chime in with some more concrete advice, but please don't despair, everything that you've mentioned sounds fixable, it's just that you're so overwhelmed with whatever else is going on that you maybe can't see that. Take time regrouping and then make a plan for Stryker's return. I hope everything works out .
Hi there , Sorry to read your update . You sound like you need a bit of space to regroup ,we all feel like that at times.However when you've both had a little break from each other Stryker sounds like he could really benefit from some concentrated training time with you.What you describe,however frustrating is completely normal. Reading back to your original post I do feel that recall issues are partly explained by the bad associations he had had to his verbal cue.I realise you've worked to to improve that and that's great if he's no longer afraid when he hears that cue ...but if he's not recalling at all now,you've got nothing to lose by changing it completely and starting again.Another factor to consider is Strykers age....he's coming up 6 months now? He's no longer the puppy that is happy to hang around you ,chew/bite you and generally get in your way while you are going about your life...he's getting more confident and independent and even a strong recall can break down at this stage,you really have to train,train,train to strengthen ALL your cues. I didn't start to work through Total Recall until my dog was about 7 months....I didn't realise the work that needed to go into it or the value of doing it so carefully with Dexter being my first dog .I NEVER thought I'd be the person standing in the park blowing a whistle,but you know,there is nothing like that feeling when they charge back to you at break neck speed ....I'd really recommend you getting hold of a copy if you haven't already and starting over right from the beginning.It will be really great bonding for you and Stryker too. I always say we didn't have any property casualties in the house when my dog was Stryker's age, not because he was super trained ,purely because I wasn't confident I could trust him so he wasn't given any opportunities to destroy anything. Everything was put out of reach ,the to remote was often found on the top of the fridge ,I even found it IN the fridge one day! We didn't leave anything expensive In grabbing distance. This takes a bit of training of the humans in the house but it would help you whilst Stryker is doing this.Training again is your long term solution ,concentrating on a strong Leave and Drop/Give will help you.We had an area we could gate Dexter off into when we couldn't supervise him and this was a sanity saver......gradually bit by bit he was allowed more access to the house ( we have a completely open plan downstairs so like Sophie describes it takes a bit of ingenuity) Could you organise something similar for Stryker? This might also help the toilet issues.If you are there ,you can obviously monitor him and take him out regularly .....I'd go right back to the beginning again and take him out every 20-30 mins ,after meals ,after naps and any other time you see the signs ....if you can fashion a secure area that he sees as his own for when you can't suoervise him ,then he probably won't use it to toilet ...or at the very worst he's only able to go in that space so he hasn't got full run and choice of the house..... You aren't alone in feeling overwhelmed by a rampaging puppy ,your Sister is wonderful to give you a break , but when he's back home with you ,Stryker needs you to help him learn his manners to grow into a super adult dog . Good luck and keep coming back with any questions....there's a lot of advice and information on the Forum and Main Site Best wishes Angela
Things have gotten better. I have enclosed the entire yard so he can no longer run off and he plays out there for most of the day without any issues. Maybe he wasn't getting enough exercise(?) His recall is starting to work again He's no longer chewing things up or biting me. He hasn't gone potty in the house lately. I leave the back door open so he can come as he pleases. He comes in on his own and sits on the floor beside me. I sit there and just pet him and talk to him like I would if he was a normal human. He's even becoming more lovable now. He climbs on my lap which I don't like but I allow it as he's showing affection when he does. He'll place his head on my shoulder and just lay there or try licking my face which I try to keep to a minimal as I've never been fond of face lick. I have decided to keep him as he's done a complete turn around. He still barks at me when I tell him no but that's not a big deal. I laugh at him when he does but when I snap my fingers he stops and lays down so there is some benefit from all of this. I just think he realized his living situation isn't bad and if he acts good he gets rewarded.
Aww sounds like both Stryker and you have got your mojo back. So glad you're feeling more loved, he sounds like an amazing boy.
