What is your opinion on Labradoodles and hybrids in general?

My father is positively obsessed with Labradoodles. Every time I talk to him and he asks about my dog search, the "Why don't you get a Labradoodle?" question comes up. My standard answer is that I would have no idea how to find a well-bred Labradoodle even if I wanted one. So I'm curious: what do you think of purposely bred mixed breeds (vs. shelter/rescue mixed breeds)?

The reason I tell my father that I wouldn't know where to find one is that my sense is that a responsible Labrador breeder and a responsible Poodle breeder would not allow their carefully bred dogs to be used in a hybrid breeding. Which would mean that most Labradoodles (or peekapoos, chugs, etc.) are bred purely for the designer pet market which is notorious for not being great for dog health.

On the other hand, GR/Lab hybrids (and increasingly Labradoodles as well) are known to make great guide and service dogs, so are used in responsible and careful GD breeding programs, though these dogs aren't usually available to the public.

Just curiosity on my part and maybe a chance to be armed with something different to say to my father the next time the Labradoodle discussion comes up for the 118th time.

 

Exactly that. They have serious breeding programmes.
I don't like to be snobby about it, but know I can sound like I am! My main concern is that you really don't know what you're getting. Within a litter, you can have such a vast range of physical attributes, let alone temperamental ones. Labradors are great dogs. Poodles are great dogs. If you get the best of both, that's brilliant. But there's an equal chance you will get the worst of both. There is no way of telling. Of course, the same could be argued for any pure bred litter, but the lower diversity of genes will give you a better idea of what you're going to end up with. Don't even get me started on how much they generally cost!!

 

And to add to your mix... how about a Goldendoodle, quite possibly the cutest, Disney-like characters out there!

My main concern would be what you say: bred for design, health is not considered.

But having said all that, there are many in my area and they are generally lovely dogs. The Goldendoodles are prettier while their Labradoodle counterparts can look quite moth-eaten. But the Goldendoodles are HUGE and I know one that was rehomed twice cos it was just too much to handle - it was bought for a family with small kids and the Poodle instinct was strong with kids being nipped into place and its hugeneess and boisterousness making it just too much to handle. Of course they also thought it would be born trained.

 

I'm personally not a huge fan of them. I think it's as you say, a very designer concept that has caught on.

When OH and I originally started talking about a dog I rang dogs trust and spoke to them about getting a puppy from them. Their response was that they don't get puppies anymore as people give them a stupid name and try to sell them as a breed.

My friend who has a springador paid more for her than I paid for Stanley. Her boyfriend told me I was mad for getting a full Labrador, that he'd be crazy and huge. Mila looks like a Labrador with white feet and is definitely bigger than Stanners. It's hard to make an informed decision about the dog you want when you have no idea how it will end up because there's no standard.

I would happily own a mongrel or a crossbreed that I'd adopted from a rescue centre. But I don't agree with charging £500+ for one.

 

On the other hand there has been discussion on her about the need to avoid a high COI when choosing a puppy, and it could be argued that bringing new genes into the pool is a good thing.
(Yes, I guess I am biased, owning a Lab cross. She's certainly 'designer' in the sense that she was deliberately bred, and the second litter from that pairing, but cost half the price of a pedigree Lab. And so far has been healthier than my last pedigree boy.)
I think perhaps as you, Emily, want to train a puppy to be a service dog, then you want to know more exactly what you're going to get. For me, wanting a pet dog, it wasn't such a big decision.

 

Well I'm obviously a big fan as Hattie is a Labradoodle and is a fit, very healthy with an excellent temperament too I get a little upset by this thread popping up every few months as everyone has the right to choose whatever breed they want and pay what they want and not be judged for it. The term 'designer' dog is just insulting to a lovely crossbreed dog. I have never met a nasty one but I have met nasty Labradors, Spaniels, Flat Coats etc. We also have endless Labrador owners on this forum that have 'pure' breed dogs with awful health issues and sometimes behaviour issues so nobody knows what they are getting whatever breed they choose.

Labradoodles are being trained more and more as assistance dogs very successfully.

As for the price, I bet I paid less for Hattie than most of you did for your Labrador's.

Hattie is the sweetest, kindest, most loving, caring, gentle family dog and she is also a Pets as Therapy Dog. She is almost 10 years old and has never had any health issues, she is as fit as a fiddle. Nothing bothers her, she has no issues with noises, people, strangers, animals, children, old people infact nothing. She is simply great, so if that's a bad breed I'll take one any day

If they weren't call Labradoodles I doubt anyone would have an issue with them. xx

 

My sister has a goldendoodle, who is a lovely dog but much bigger than they expected, and with very shaggy fur that needs constant trimming. He came from a couple who did health-check their dogs. They paid 750 pounds for him - which I think is a fair amount, I think all dogs should cost enough to make it worth the while for breeders to do their job properly. However, we do laugh that he is the most expensive mongrel around!!! Not my cup of tea, just too huge, hairy, dirty and boisterous. Another friend of mine has a labradoodle, and like Hattie she is also a gorgeous dog; good-natured and healthy. Personally, I love the sleek labrador look, but it is just up to individual preference.

I don't think there is anything wrong in crossing two breeds of dogs, as long as careful consideration is factored in to the breed aspects both physical and mental, and as long as the correct health checks are made. What I think we can all agree is wrong is the targeted puppy-farm breeding of cross breeds, purely with an eye to making money.

 

I was actually having this discussion last night. The thing is, these mixes aren't doing that - they're creating different "breeds". That is, they would if they actually bred the doodles to doodles, but nearly all are F1 hybrids, which do nothing for nobody, neither allowing for careful selection to create a standard "know what you're getting" doodle, nor helping the lines of the pedigree dogs.
In order to bring COIs down and to introduce genes into the Labrador (or whatever) gene pool, that hybrid then has to be bred to full Labs again, and a couple more generations down, until you can say it's been "absorbed".

I think it's more about judging the breeders than the owners. Because so many of them are just doing it for a fast buck with no real thought. Those that are doing it ethically are to be congratulated. In the same way as you get good and bad pedigree dog breeders. Sadly, I think the percentage of people breeding ethically at all is very low, but especially for the designer dog market.
I do think the term "designer dog" is misleading, because you're not designing anything - as per my previous post, you could get pretty much anything popping up. Look at the lovey Hattie, who looks very poodle-like. And others who look nothing like a poodle. It's more like a "cross your fingers and hope dog". Most owners of these mixes will get more upset if you call them a mongrel, though, thinking people are being snobby - which, granted, they often are! "Hybrid" would be more accurate if you want a term to describe all first-generation crosses, but if you use words like that, people look at you like you have a screw loose.

No, no-one can guarantee what you're going to get with even a pure-bred, but with the health testing (which is too often neglected on both sides of the pedigree debate) you get a better chance of having a healthy dog. Behaviour issues generally come from poor breeding, too, or poor experiences. Often dogs that are bred (either deliberately or accidentally) to have certain characteristics that don't gel with the environment they end up in.

Often within careful breeding programmes. In the same way you can't compare a Labrador bred by Guide Dogs to one you've picked up from any regular breeder, you can't make assumptions that all hybrids are great because there are some highly trained ones. Of course, as Nando and Jo-Rosie demonstrated, you can also take carefully-selected rescue dogs, often mixes, and turn them into assistance dogs. Yes, there are loads of challenging dogs around, be they mixes or pure bred. And there are plenty of dogs that are brilliant. You just can't generalise one way or the other.

No-one is having a go at you, Helen, nor at Hattie. I can understand why you feel defensive, but this isn't anyone picking at you or the choices you made. I think it's more about the people ("breeders") who are taking advantage of people. You can't expect most people to put in the amount of research many of us do when buying a new dog, so they are often led by what's "cute", and by price. People think more expensive must mean better bred, healthier, better temperament and that just isn't the case. I paid far less (about half) for my well-bred show puppy than someone I know paid for her THREE-WAY mix! And people do fall for the funny names; if they didn't, they wouldn't exist. I know someone who got a sprocker because she liked the name, but was given no guidance and just couldn't cope with the ridiculous amount of energy this dog had - which really isn't a surprise if you know anything about spaniels. She didn't. Good breeders - of whatever breed or mixture - will ensure that their puppies don't go to unsuitable homes.

 

Absolutely, I was shown Hattie's parents health certificates, saw both her parents, she came from a very loving breeder where all her dogs lived inside, she grilled us for a day and wouldn't give Hattie to us had she not like us. I am still in contact with her x

 

That's just perfect, Helen, and exactly how it should be. Dogs bred ethically and with love. Brilliant.

I've held my hands up before and said I did it all wrong with W&S. I wouldn't change them for the world, but their problems have highlighted to me the huge importance of proper breeding.

 

Just to chuck a spanner in the works , I do believe that outcrossing is often advantageous . As the owner of a pedigree dog who`s type of Lymphoma " may " be genetic , and seeing all the other health problems with some breeds , its time for a rethink , just my personal view x

 

Here is the beautiful Angus, Labradoodle, now a steady, hard working Guide Dog.

There are two beautiful poodle stud dogs for GDs - both the big, standard variety, of course_

 

He is a handsome lad, beautiful x

 

No I know nobody is having a go at me or Hattie, if I thought they were I wouldn't be so restrained I just don't get why this topic is constantly brought up, me and my family made an INFORMED choice to buy a dog that suited our family and that has been the case a 1000 fold. Lots of people buy Labradors which are not for me but I don't make a judgement. Nobody would blink an eye if someone bought a Labrador cross Spaniel or even like Charlie a Labrador cross Pointer, now is that because they have a sleek coat and look like a 'gundog' and not a shaggy or curly coat? A Labradoodle is a mix of two highly respected gundogs so why all the humour and name calling? I know you don't see them on shoots etc. but maybe one day

 

Good for you Angus, who is quite stunning Thank you Mags x

I think the tables will turn when people realise just how amazing these cross breeds are and what they have to offer as a working guide dog, assistance dog, medical detection dog etc. Watch this space!

 

59% of all Guide Dogs are first crosses

 

As long as they are bred from health-checked parents, then they're great - I mean look at the amazing Hattie . I also believe they can make fantastic assistance dogs. I have a bee in my bonnet about giving them silly names like labradoodle, springador etc. but that's just me being grumpy. Coco has a couple of friends at training who are Cocker Spaniel x Poodles.

Coco was a deliberately bred cross, but I strongly suspect his parents were NOT health-checked. People are definitely a bit carefree with their breeding on the Isle of Man (OH calls him a "GSDLX" )

 

It's absolutely what needs to happen, or pedigrees are doomed. But this isn't outcrossing, which absorbs those outcrosses back into the breed. This is creating hybrids which don't benefit the breed at all.

You don't see nearly enough poodles in training, either, in my opinion. I don't think most people realise they're even a gun dog!

I don't think it's name calling, I think people are using the name that has been given to them. Labradoodles are the highest profile of all the hybrids, so get used as the example. Sprockers and cockerpoos are becoming more and more common, though, so maybe they'll overtake Labradoodles as the cross of choice.

I think they do have their place, and, with the right breeding, which means getting further than F1s, they could make brilliant breeds in their own right, where you know what you're getting and can breed for health, temperament and whatever characteristics can be cherry-picked from the two sides. Not many people seem particularly interested in doing this, though, and I don't know why. Surely the way to cement the validity of these crosses is to try to make them more consistent? Then you could say "sprockers make a versatile gun dog", "labrahuahuas make a brilliant, mid-sized companion dog" etc etc.

 

Yes , I realise this Fiona , I was just thinking out loud, which is something I shouldn't do !

 

Oh, I have verbal diarrhoea, so I can't judge