Why is dog training geared towards training dogs individually? This is more an observation than a question. I understand training one dog is easier. No destraction from other dog, full attention on dog you are training and teaching and learning is in general better one to one (I'm a teacher I should know that) but my dogs have learnt something's together with no problem. I taught them both to sit together almost as soon as they came home, they learnt to bring me objects while I sat on floor playing with them and I taught them to sit and wait at a door together. They won't go through a door without being told and they transferred this to gates themselves. I didn't need to train them to wait at a gate they just did! Young of anything are continuously learning so although you might not be in a training session the dogs are still learning and doing it together so why is it wrong to train them together and why has nobody ever done dual training instructions is it really so bad ? Jen
Re: Why is dog training........ This is a really good question. In behavioural terms, dogs must be trained separately because training them together leads to 1) Poor reinforcement and 2)Poor control over level of difficulty for the dogs. Effective training is a distinctive process of behavioural modification. We reinforce desirable behaviours by controlling the consequences. Action -> Consequence The dog carries out an action, you provide a consequence. Consequences must accompany actions or follow them immediately in order for the behaviour we want, to be reinforced. We know this to be true from laboratory experiments and years of field experiments across a whole range of animals and with a whole range of different trainers. In practical terms, if you have two dogs in front of you, it is not usually possible to provide an immediate consequence to both dogs in a timely and effective way. You could ask both dogs to sit, and if they both sit simultaneously you could provide a ‘marker’ that would be accurate for both. But what if they don’t sit simultaneously. Which dog do you mark? If you mark one dog accurately (saying ‘Good’ when the first dog sits for example), you are marking the other inaccurately (he hasn’t sat yet). If you wait for the second dog to respond before marking, you are providing a delayed and therefore less effective reinforcement to the dog that sat first. This might not make a huge difference to a simple task like sitting before the door is opened, but as soon as you add any complexity into a task, you will run into trouble. In addition to the logistical problems of applying markers and delivering reinforcements to two dogs at once, you are making it much harder for both dogs, because each has the added distraction of the other dog. Effective training demands complete focus and concentration on your dog. You cannot provide this with another untrained dog in the room. It is simply unfair to both dogs. So whilst two dogs taught together are capable of learning simple tasks, it is always better and quicker to train separately. Your example of learning to fetch objects together is a classic situation where people with two puppies can go wrong. It only needs one puppy to take the retrieve from the other and puppy number two can be thoroughly put off retrieving before it is even started. In a family situation, there may be times when you feel it is easier to teach and reward simple skills to both dogs at once, But I don’t think you will find many trainers willing to provide instructions, for what is ultimately a harder and less effective way of getting results, and an approach that has far more potential for errors. Pippa
Re: Why is dog training........ Thanks Pippa what you said makes complete sense. It's the way I train these two monsters of mine I just wondered why. Its never been explained your just told you must train individually so thank you for explaining it in simple terms. Jen
Re: Why is dog training........ I have two puppies and if I call them in the house they both arrived together or one shortly after the other, however when I'm out training each as an individual I see that Hester is more responsive and recalls swiftly whereas Dido is not so prompt and requires more "encouragement". If I only worked them as a pair I wouldn't see this difference and know that Dido is copying Hester not really responding to the command. It doesn't have to be a pair of puppies for this to happen. It was only after Juno died that I realised that Maia (3 years younger) hadn't learnt anywhere near as much as I'd thought she was simply following Juno's lead. I hope this adds to Pippa's information. Kerryn
Re: Why is dog training........ Thanks Kerryn. I know what you mean about the difference between 2 . Like your two Scout is more responsive were as Scott likes to mooch about and like Dido needs more encouragement. Its funny how 2 dogs who have had the same experiences, from the same litter etc can be so different. I think people who don't know think Labradors are all the same they are Labradors. To be honest I don't think I realised just how different dogs of the same breed with the same experiences could be. I learnt quickly. Jen
Re: Why is dog training........ This is really interesting. Ours are trained seperately in short sessions to give them one to one time, just as an enjoyment thing for them. But I hadn't thought of there being problems if they were all done together. But it makes total sense doesn't it. Unless they both get it right, at the same time, you can't say good dog - coz who you talking to? Very interesting.
