Neutering Question After Neutering

Discussion in 'Labrador Health' started by Evelyn, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. drjs@5

    drjs@5 Registered Users

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    And sometimes in mood disorder
     
  2. Evelyn

    Evelyn Registered Users

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    I know know what is wrong with Winston. He had to be taken to a neurologist to be evaluated. The neurologist noted that he was walking by putting more weight on his front leg. He recommended an MRI with contrast and I had it done. The diagnosis is lumbosacral stenosis (mild). He has degenerative disc disease in addition to a herniated disc towards the lower part of his back, which is basically lumbosacral disc protrusion of his spine. This is closer to his tail. He is on Metacam and strict rest except for 10 minute walks. I was told he needs to lose weight so one week ago I put him on a home cooked diet. I ordered the minerals to put in his food since just a plain home cooked meal is not enough. He goes to his regular vet on Tuesday for blood work to ensure the Metacam is not affecting his kidneys or liver. Since being on the home cooked diet, he has been constipated for one day. I will gave him enough pumpkin to hopefully get his intestines going. I just wanted to update everyone as to what is wrong with Winston.
     
  3. MF

    MF Registered Users

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    So sorry to hear. My dog has similar - slipped disc at L7-S1. We discovered this after he shrieked in agony. He also wouldn't jump into the car or on the bed.

    We treated with strict restriction of jumping and twisting, and no soft surfaces (sandy beaches) - he wasn't allowed to twist his back. But he was allowed to trot and run on firm surfaces. Specialist orthopedic vet said exercise would be very good (he said in the past they restricted exercise, but have changed their protocol now).

    We also treated with laser targeted at the site. I think 4 sessions. 1.5 years on and he has recovered very well. Vet said vertebrae would eventually fuse on their own, stabilizing the area. We hope that happens/has happened.

    Re constipation - make sure your boy is not in pain. We were told to watch out for this, that pressure on the nerves can affect the comfort of squatting. Our boy's hind legs do tremble when he squats, something he'll most likely always have but he has muscles of steel, very strong, which hopefully helps things. We do a lot of uphill walking (live on a mountain slope), apparently good for building muscle in the rear end.
     
  4. drjs@5

    drjs@5 Registered Users

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    Sorry to hear that Evelyn. But glad you have some answers and a plan too.
    Hope your boy responds well x
     
  5. Evelyn

    Evelyn Registered Users

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    Here is an update on Winston. I ended up going to a teaching university by my home. It was the best thing I did. I told Winston's new vet, Dr. Davis, to please start from scratch so we could get to the bottom of his main issue. I had them do x-rays, blood work and anything else that could be done. Little things here and there were found that were genetic but nothing cause his main issue. He was then sent to a neurologist and right away he knew what was possible causing this problem, but to be sure he would need to do an MRI with contrast. This was done in the evening and the doctor confirmed what he had told me earlier but more in depth. To make a long short, Winston has degenerative disc disease and the cause of his main issue is due to a herniated disc near his tail. He was walking with his neck down to help relieve the pain from his back. Winston was put on Metacam (nsaid) for about 3 weeks, short walks, limited stairs, and jumping. In addition, needs to lose weight so I started him on a homemade diet with all the vitamins, minerals, and supplements; it has only been 2 weeks since I changed his food. I will see what he weighs when I take him back to the neurologist on Tuesday and he will evaluate him again.
     
  6. Evelyn

    Evelyn Registered Users

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    What did the vet recommend? Please let me know.
     
  7. Evelyn

    Evelyn Registered Users

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    I was just reading about laser therapy. I am going to look into this tomorrow and found a vet close to my home that does this procedure! I am glad I checked in again.
     
  8. MF

    MF Registered Users

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    We saw three vets:
    - Our usual vet, who actually suspected a slipped neck vertebrae -- a clear case of not diagnosing correctly but rather comparing to what she knows: her dog slipped a neck vertebrae, so she assumed similar for our dog. However, in her favour, she did recommend we see the specialist vet.
    - The specialist orthopaedic vet: he examined Snowie with his hands and immediately, within seconds, diagnosed the correct herniated disk, at L7-S1. Poor Snowie: this vet prodded him very hard and asked Snowie to "talk to me", ie cry out, when he hit the sore point. The first prodding up the spine didn't get much out, obviously Snowie is a stoic. But the next time he cried -- oh my heart, it was broken. But he got the correct diagnosis. MRI confirmed it.
    - The holistic vet: He did the laser therapy. For the first session he did acupuncture, but decided at the second session that the acupuncture wasn't the right treatment and chose laser thereafter.

    Treatment:
    The specialist vet said it was too early for surgery, that Snowie's condition wasn't bad enough to warrant surgery. Instead, as I said before in this thread, no twisting allowed of his back, so no soft surfaces such as beach sand. No jumping and jarring his spine. But he was allowed to exercise freely, and this was encouraged, to get fit and strong, so lots of walking, and running was allowed as long as he didn't stop suddenly and jar his back. Absolutely no ball retrieves or any retrieving that made his stop suddenly. This was difficult at first because Snowie loves his ball. But amazingly, after one week, he stopped asking for his ball and instead took up sniffing every blade of grass! He became very interested in his surroundings and other dogs now that he didn't have a ball to chase. And also interesting, he stopped stealing other dogs' balls -- he used to chase after other dogs' balls, but stopped that as well. I guess he found sniffing was far more interesting.

    The specialist vet gave pain meds, but we used them about twice -- with restricted exercise and not putting Snowie in situations where he twisted his back, he didn't seem to have any pain. The pain meds were Rymadil (sp?).

    The specialist vet said if Snowie had painful episodes, ie screaming, once every three months, that was okay. If they happened every week, that was bad and we'd have to reassess. But thankfully he's had no screaming episodes since -- more than 1.5 years ago.

    Our usual vet recommended the holistic vet for acupuncture; she said he'd done wonders for pain management for her dog that had had the slipped neck vertebrae disc. The laser therapy was a 10-min session. I can't say I understand exactly what was going on cos you see nothing! We all had to wear googles, Snowie included, to protect eyes. The vet sat behind Snowie, held him under his stomach, and rubbed what looked like a hairdryer over the affected area -- this was the laser machine. The vet assistant sat in front of Snowie and kept him busy so that he wouldn't try to scratch off the goggles. She was brilliant: silently sat with Snowie, had treats in her hand and made him try to guess which hand the treat was in, kept him totally focused for the entire 10-min session, it was amazing to see! Snowie had about 3-4 laser sessions (I forget how many!) over a few months. I think our second session was two weeks later, then four weeks later, then six weeks later. The vet said the laser increases circulation to the area, which helps the body heal itself. He said Snowie's condition was normal for an 8 yo dog but not a 4 yo dog (Snowie's age then). So yes, also degenerative disc disease. The x-ray also showed up a malformed vertebrae -- I think S1 -- which might've caused the problem. We also think the problem got worse because of how Snowie had to jump into and out of pool -- the steps are too awkward to use, so he'd jump in at the pool seat end, which jarred his back and made him contort. We ended up dropping concrete blocks into our pool to make easy steps for Snowie, and I'm guessing this was the main thing that improved things -- Snowie was no longer stressing his back jumping in and out of the pool.

    The x-rays showed a spine growing between the two affected vertebrae. The vet said this was the body's normal way of fusing the back, to stabilise the area. He said this is what they attempt with surgery, so we're hoping Snowie's back healed itself in this way. Only way to know is to re-x-ray, which we won't do unless necessary.

    We give Snowie chondroitin, glucosamine, and green mussel extract supplement and also salmon oil capsules -- all good for inflammation and healing. He's also on a raw diet and his weight is good. He lost a kilo in the last three months and has been so energetic!! (My husband and I are on diet, and with no treats in the house, the effect was Snowie slimmed down!!)

    He still shows a slight drag mark on one back paw -- we see it at the beach sand. Yes, he goes to the beach again. The vet said this is due to nerve damage, and if his paw remains folded over, that is a warning signal to get into surgery. Thankfully you don't see his paw staying folded over. It is so weird cos he looks so muscley and strong. I have contemplated physio, which I'm told is good for strengthening muscles, but at this stage he doesn't seem to be getting worse.

    Best of luck with your boy! If our case is anything to go by, there is light at the end of the tunnel and things do improve -- the body can heal itself if given the right conditions. Many dogs with degenerative disc disease have lived out full lives. In the depth of my despair 1.5 years ago, I was comforted by lovely people on this forum who told me the same.
     
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