Just been out on a lead training walk. Went to park and there were a few dogs there - made Rosie walk nicely through park and (tried) to make her sit before allowing her off the lead. Which I did achieve in a messy sort of way. But she was still launching and over excited. Anyway, one of the dog owners said she's into dog behaviourism in a big way and that I'll NEVER train her to ignore distractions. The only way was a head collar. Disheartened I said I'd tried the gentle lead for weeks but she never tolerated it so moved to this no pull harness (which is ok). So are my laborious training sessions trying to train her not to launch pointless?
Re: Is training pointless??? Absolutely NOT ! I have a dog that is extremely friendly and excited by other dogs. Previously he would leg it at the slightest whiff or sight of another dog. We've spent a lot of time and effort preventing him from legging it while desensitising him to the presence of other dogs and working on his recall amongst other dogs and he is much, much better. Still a work in progress but we can now walk up to other dogs at heel, offlead. Would Riley have done that on his own - no - it was much more fun to hare up to his new best friends So I conclude this change can only be the result of training. He also walks to heel onlead and although he gets excited by other dogs a quick verbal reminder brings him back to heel and a loose lead. I use a harness when I want to use a long line but I've never used any kind of head collar, Riley is walked on a slip lead and has been since he was big enough to graduate out of his fixed collar and lead.
Re: Is training pointless??? By the way if I sound cross it's because I am but because of that stupid woman not you ;D
Re: Is training pointless??? Thank you for your reply. I felt so disheartened this morning I could have cried. I'm plugging away and hoping one day something will click and her manners will improve. Only to be told you can't train this out of them. The idea she'll be like this forever is too much to bear tbh!!! I assumed I had to teach her manners but this woman took the wind out of my sails. Especially as she's a behaviourist I guessed she knew what she was talking about. I asked her politely not to put the halti on Rosie (she had one with her!) and she seemed miffed about this and marched off. I felt really guilty and a but perplexed especially as Rosie was jumping about like a gazelle at the time. I feel like they all think I'm a hopeless case at the park!!
Re: Is training pointless??? And ANOTHER thing (ooohhh she's really got my goat!!!) If what she said were true no-one would ever be able to train a spaniel to hunt to command and sit to flush !!!! and on a slightly calmer note.... One of the big challenges with training is it takes time, patience and perseverance. Hang in there, be consistent and you'll get there ;D Try and make your training a fun game with lots of rewards. Keep it short too and only increase difficulty gradually - Rosie's only young still isn't she?
Re: Is training pointless??? Hi Jennyann, you are not a hopeless case, I have had my fair share of people giving me a hard time over Charlie our rescue, and yes it is very unpleasant. You did the right thing not letting that so called "behaviourist" put a head collar on Rosie, it is absolutely none of her business, and she should know better. As Barbara said, it takes a long time to train a dog to walk to heel, recall etc, and believe me Charlie used to crawl on his tummy when we rescued him, now he walks nicely on a slip lead, or for me on a harness but it has taken a long time as he had bad habits on his arrival . Have you thought about using a harness? if you decide to I would recommend a front attachment which guides the dog round to you, a back attachment as far as I can see just allows the dog to pull into it just like a flat collar. Do you take tasty treats with you when you are teaching her heel work? Do you have anyone that could go for a walk with you for moral support? We have all felt disheartened and I have cried buckets over Charlie :'( :'(, please don't be sad and keep going, you will get there with Rosie. We are all here for you when you have sad days. Helen xx
Re: Is training pointless??? Thank you so much Charlie, I'm trying my hardest, getting advice from this forum and reading, reading, reading. She has a no pull harness which isn't bad at all but if she puts her whole body into the launch well she's quite strong. I can pull her back but she's lost in goofiness. I take different treats from ones you buy to chicken, ham or cheese. Try to vary. She's 6 months old and learning many things well. No bother with jumping or launching in the house with visitors. Just outside. It's really helpful to hear you say it's not pointless. I could have literally cried! She's dented my confidence so thinking of recruiting one of these doggie whisperer training people to give me some advice and pointers.
Re: Is training pointless??? Barbara, Thanks for your support! Yes Rosie is 6 months. She's just over excited when out near other dogs. I think it's a tiny bit better with other people but still needs loads of work. Dogs though are a list cause at the moment but I'm plugging away. Her words are ringing in my ears!
Re: Is training pointless??? Oh , dont people make you sooo bloomin angry , stupid woman My Sam , the solemn calm two year old, was a silly youngster , would go flying to other dogs whether they wanted his attention or not ( often not ) . I got him hooked on retrieving which wasnt hard to do as he adores it and now, wherever his ball/dummy is, there he is too, completely ignoring other dogs , its all about training , enjoy it and ignore silly remarks
Re: Is training pointless??? Obviously that behavourist woman knows nothing about training dogs! Of course you will be able to train your dog to sit and not launch, she is only young and has to be taught. With my oldest Lab, he was so bad at launching that I had to throw myself to the ground so that he had to drag me as well as I just couldn't hold him! Long story why he got like that, due to not being able to train him when young due to fractured elbow. He now never launches, it takes time to train some dogs, it isn't an overnight fix, so take heart, you will very soon be able to do what you aim to do.
Re: Is training pointless??? The best way we found of getting used to other dogs was to join a class. It meant we had to redo a lot of things because of the distraction of the other dogs but it gradually made a dent in Riley's dog induced deafness ;D
Re: Is training pointless??? Jennyann My Charlie is just over 7 months, six weeks ago - when he was te same age as Rosie - I was still having problems with lead walking and launching at other dogs. I had a range of odd problems! If you look back at my posts from towards the end of August you'll see what I mean (although that would probably be a very boring thing to do ;D). Now, he is not perfect by any means, but he is really, really, much improved. If you can just do a few organised minutes of training a day - I keep a note, as otherwise I sorted of kid myself how much proper training I do - it makes a huge and very real difference.
Re: Is training pointless??? Thanks Julie, Is there anything specific you did to train out the launching? Booked into puppy classes on Saturday. Lordy Lordy, prepare for lift off all those attending....!
Re: Is training pointless??? I asked him to sit! And still do. Whenever he might get into trouble, I get his bum on the floor! The really helpful thing for me was teaching sit means "sit until I tell you to do something else". So being very organised and consistent with a release word (mine is "go play"). This was a big shift from a casual "sit" and the dog decides when he gets up. I also went to great lengths to make sure he never got to another dog by launching (I had to ask other owners not to let their dogs pull them over when he was launching towards their dog), but made sure he knew that he got to other dogs by sitting until I said "go play", At the same time, I was working through sit and stay exercises at the beginning of the gundog trust training books - these were an enormous help. In addition to the exercises, we worked on sit everywhere - sit and release before food, before a door is opened, after a lead comes off, while the dishwasher is being stacked - just for everything.
Re: Is training pointless??? Thanks Julie, That's helpful - I'll try what you say. Sounds similar to what I do so reassuring to stick to that but I'll add the other general 'sit' commands too. Xxx
Re: Is training pointless??? Just stick with it - Charlie is still a total puppy brain nutcase, and I'm not much better! If we can do it, you and Rosie absolutely can too. Best of luck, this walking nicely around other dogs is a pain to get through but it passed quite quickly for us.
Re: Is training pointless??? Jennyann, just want to add my words of support to the great advice you've got. That woman was about as much of a behaviourist as my right shoe. What she said is laughable. Rosie is calm in the house (because you trained her to be) and this is what you will also eventually get out in the big wide world. I don't think I've ever met a young Lab that wasn't a doggy rocket launcher when it came to other people and dogs - but they do learn to control themselves with our help When trying to get my dog's attention I've found it helpful to really act like a fool - like I've just found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow or something. Get really excited - really, really excited! Once you've got her attention via a super-charged clown act, run backwards, hopefully bringing her (looking interested) with you and then get her into a sit. Big reward. Then, with a happy voice, leave the scene. The whole time you are acting like you are the most incredibly exciting and fascinating person on Earth. Anyway, I've found that that helps, though it doesn't do a lot for your public image (but who cares about that). Hang in there - you are doing great and Rosie will grow up to be a delightful adult
Re: Is training pointless??? Thank you Oberon, your comments made me smile Having read all the replies I have decided to disregard the behaviourist woman in the park and keep going. I'll take on board all the super advice from your replies too. Booked into puppy class on Saturday - so she'll be bouncing off the ceiling when she sees these other dogs! Hope they aren't all perfectly behaved while I look like I've brought in a gazelle by mistake! Will let you know how she/I get on. Thanks again everyone - was really demoralised yesterday. It is hard enough without comments like that and I'm not knowledgeable enough to discount them myself. Xx
Re: Is training pointless??? Training is not pointless, it is very usefull and an important part of a dogs life. If barley had not had any training he probably would have ended up being put down because of all his various ans complex issues, if it was not for taining he would be a very different dog. Dont feel dishearted at the womens comments, she obviously does not know what she is talking about. Good luck at puppy classes, our new puppy was a different dog at training class, she is so well behaved especailyl lead walking, at home and outside evn without distractions she is a nightmare now, but at training in a hall full of dogs and people she is perfect :
Re: Is training pointless??? Jenny Ann,I'm only just getting on here now for a quick read today,stupid woman!please don't get disheartened now.....or along the way when you are persevering and persevering and you still think you have a scud missile on the end of the lead,bit by bit things start to click. Dexter is 12 months old and he is a very good dog......he gets everything quickly at home and in the garden then I 'take it on the road' and the distraction of other dogs has always been my tricky one,people ,joggers,prams( unless there is food in in or a child eating food!)skateboards,skipping,balls games....all overcome reasonably easily with a bit of practice......walking past other dogs.....nightmare!,when I realised that I wasn't moving forward I enrolled us in an obedience class to practice around other dogs......this gave me exposure in a controlled environment to practice what he could already do reliably and also I could get some tips as to how to move forward outside.Dexter is so much better....I was following The same method as Julie and it wasn't working for us.i have Dexter walk by my left leg so the trainer suggested holding my treats in my right hand at my right shoulder level as making him sit could be building his excitement and anticipation of a lovely rocket launch at the oncoming dog.she told me to keep walking and to say cheerfully ' Lets go' his attention comes up to my face level as he knows I have treats and I feed him one as I get his eye contact ......this has made a big difference .i would have dexter in a sit with roast chicken dangling on the end of his nose and all he was trying to do was peer round me to see the other dog and pulling as the dog got closer.we started the 'let's go' process with distance and now he will pad along quite happily next to me for intermittent treats quite close to strange dogs.......for us staying in sit don't work with other dogs.....but Dexter is my first dog and I could have been not teaching him right :-\ ...probably! Hope the class helps you,let us know how it goes. Best wishes and keep trying because it is all so worth it,and it's good for you and your dogs relationship too. Bye for now angela x
