Am i sending mixed signals?

Discussion in 'Labrador Training' started by Allan, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. Allan

    Allan Registered Users

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    I have been teaching Balder (2 month old) to take food from my hand gently and its going really well, actually a bit too well. He is very good at it and have really grasped that sitting still equals getting food. But the problem is that he does it all the time now and I'm unsure if I'm suppose to reinforce the behavior every time he does it by himself or only when I initiate it?
    It's not that he is hungry without access to food, I can sit literally next to his half full food bowl and take handfuls from it to reward him with.

    As it is right now i give in about half the time (its tough ignoring puppy eyes) and I'm a bit worried its sending him mixed signals.
     
  2. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Welcome to the forum :)

    So, is he sitting a lot in the hope of getting a treat?

    Whether or not you reward this every time is up to you. You can give him a treat every time he sits, if you want to (which obviously means you are going to keep getting a lot of sits!!). Or you can only reward if you have asked for the sit first - ignoring any sits that you did not ask (or cue) for. The second approach is usually the most common one and it's what I'd recommend with behaviours that can become very repetitive and frequent (and kinda annoying!). You do have to make sure you have a clear cue for the sit so that your dog understands when you have asked for it and when you haven't. Do you use a word and/or hand signal to ask for a sit?

    There are some behaviours that I do reward every single time even if I have not asked for it - one of these is coming back to me on a walk. I always reward that because I really want my dog to think that coming back to me is a great thing and I want him to check in with me often.

    So, for behaviours that you are happy for your dog to offer spontaneously, reward every time they happen. For everything else make sure you have a cue for it and reward only when your dog offers the behaviour after you have asked for it using your cue.

    Hope that helps! :)
     
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  3. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    Hi Allan and welcome to the forum. As Rachael says, it's entirely up to you. I'll add to that that some people like to train a "sit means please" with their dogs, which actually isn't cued! Just to confuse you ;)

    So, if I have a treat in my hand that my dogs want, they'll sit. Before I give them their dinner, they sit. When I used to crate them, they'd sit before I let them out. When I go through a gate, they sit and wait to be released. Etc etc. All are uncued, but it's their way of saying "please". I actually only do this with two out of three of my dogs - the third one I have a "default stand" instead!

    With the reward schedule, giving a treat only some of the time can actually be very reinforcing to the dog. If you're interested in this, the book How Dogs Learn is a good read :)
     
  4. AngelConradie

    AngelConradie Registered Users

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    It is very hard not to give in to those eyes - what may help is giving pup another cue and rewarding him for that.
    With our Guide Dog puppies, we are told not to encourage "begging" behaviour by not rewarding a cue we haven't asked for. For example, our current puppy, Riggs, loves the TOUCH cue, and he will nose-bump me if he's bored because he knows he sometimes gets treats for it.
    If he starts with the nose-bumping, I ignore it and instead go for a short walk or do a couple of SIT-DOWN-STAND-SIT and SIT-DOWN-UP SIT-DOWN exercises. This way his wanting to get attention is acknowledged without enforcing his begging.
     
  5. AngelConradie

    AngelConradie Registered Users

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    Okay... I have no idea why my reply has put itself into an orange block! :p:D:oops:
     
  6. Cath

    Cath Registered Users

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    Just wanted to welcome you Allan to the Forum and ask have you any photos of Balder for us to see?
     
  7. heidrun

    heidrun Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    With such a young pup I would definitely reward every offered auto sit but I would mix up the rewards, food, attention, fuss, play, praise, toys, so the dog gets used to different rewards. But I would definitely reward it because the time will come soon when you will be glad to have a dog with a great reward history for an auto sit. :)
     
  8. Allan

    Allan Registered Users

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    Thanks for the reply and advice all I really appreciate it!

    I think I was maybe just making myself a bit crazy trying to do everything correctly, its my first time owning a dog so its all very new for both me and Balder. But its been about a month now and i feel more confident. Reading around this wonderful forum has also really helped.

    I settled on only rewarding sits with treats when Ive asked for it, but still giving verbal praise when he does it. And to clarify, it started as exercise in taking treats gently from my hand but it morphed into a sit and i just went with it. For a few days he was sitting literally all the time and it made me think a lot, but that has more or less passed and the more pressing issues now is getting him to only chew on stuff he is allowed to and figuring out the right amount of exercise. And from what i gather that will be relevant for a while :D

    And yes! I do have pictures (several hundred but ill spare you and only give the 8 best:D)
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  9. selina27

    selina27 Registered Users

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    He's really gorgeus, I love the one in the draw. I have a video some where of Cassie, my 14 month old, a year ago in a basket full of my sons socks, due to be washed! Puppy heaven I think it was.
    Any way welcome to this wonderful forum. Balder is one heck of a name.
     
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  10. Cath

    Cath Registered Users

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    He is beautiful
     
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  11. Joy

    Joy Registered Users

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    He's just gorgeous!
     
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  12. Boogie

    Boogie Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    I agree. Try to reward behaviour you have asked for and behaviour you want rather than the pup 'asking' for food.

    Great photos :)


    .
     
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  13. Snowy

    Snowy Registered Users

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    Great pics, thanks for posting!
     
  14. Beanwood

    Beanwood Registered Users

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    Lovely photos, your pup is way too cute! :) He looks like just how I imagined Casper our eight year old adopted lab would have looked like as a puppy, he has begging down to an art form now mind...:D
     
  15. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Well, you don't had to have everything on cue. There are usually some behaviours that you want to be offered frequently and spontaneously. Those can be rewarded when they're offered. It's up to you to decide which ones these are.

    For me it's:
    - heeling
    - returning to me on an off-lead walk
    - looking back at me if he sees another dog

    These things all have cues but since I really value them and want to make them really strong and accessible behaviours I'll also pay them if they're given uncued.
     
  16. Oberon

    Oberon Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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    Mind you, all those things I mentioned are still kind of cued - by the environment. Eg. seeing another dog cues attention on me.

    So sometimes you want the context or something else in the environment to be the cue. It doesn't always have to be you.
     
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  17. Harley Quinn

    Harley Quinn Registered Users

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    LOL! I just realised that we are a little like our dogs - they perform a certain behaviour and get a treat, we ask for photos and get reinforced by recieving them. So I can completely understand why Harley does what she does. He is just adorable. Just the kind of cuteness I needed to see today. But I can see why you struggle with those eyes. :) Welcome!
     
  18. edzbird

    edzbird Registered Users

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    Wonderful photos, Balder is terribly cute :inlove:
     
  19. AngelConradie

    AngelConradie Registered Users

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    He's gorgeous!
     

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