Axel got in a dog fight this morning. I'm so upset worst part is I had a bad gut feeling about this dog, which so happens to be my sisters dog. He's a huge German shephered, 58kg, and very dominant. Axel isn't exactly submissive like he used to be but he's respectful and listens to dogs and also communicates - and he was trying to tell the dog to 'go away, you're being rude' and by the time I said ok we are leaving this isn't good, it was too late, literally as soon as I said that the fight happened They were going after each other's necks and the noise was loud and horrid, I've never seen a dog fight before so I was panicking. But we pulled them apart and I left with Axel instantly. It scares me to think what would have happened if we weren't standing right there. I feel so guilty. Worst part is my sister said it was Axel's fault! It was not. Her dog was snarling, herding and barking at Axel. All the while Axel was trying to keep his distance and say hi to other dogs, sniff the trees and do his own thing. My sister kept saying 'that's Shadow's way of trying to play' im sorry but I don't think that's proper dog etiquette? If Axel wants to play with another dog he puppy bows, or grabs a toy and tries to get them to chase him... not run up to a dog snarling, hackles up and barking. Big dogs often do snarl at Axel but Axel always listens and wanders off, like he tried doing today a few times. Then usually the other dog is fine because he has left them alone. But for whatever reason her dog would not stop seeking Axel out and doing this. Axel is neutered so it can't be a hormone thing I don't think? Axel like I said did give some warning snaps back as if to say 'stop pestering me' but her dog would take it to the next level but we were able to stop it before it got to that level each time, until that last time. I am kicking myself for not leaving after the first few incidents, I just want to curl up and cry. Only reason we were trying to make it work was because she needs a place to stay while she looks for a place. But after this there is no way I'm going to let them stay in my house. Feeling like the worst dog mom in the world and just needed to vent. I know Axel is not aggressive. I take him to the dog park almost daily, he still goes to daycare a few times a week, we never have any problems. Besides him telling a dog off a couple months back but once again it was pestering him so I kind of understood after venting on here. But now I'm worried he's going to have problems with black dogs Axel seems unphazed by this mornings fight, and has been sleeping all day (his usual routine) and was fine with Odie climbing all over him lol (also as per usual). I'm glad he's ok and I'm glad the other dog is ok. But I'm still shaken by this. Sorry I needed to vent and I just rambled.
Oh, Kelsey, this is massively upsetting and I'm not surprised you're upset. It sounds like you have a brilliant grasp on your dog's communication and, as you said, just left it a tad too late to remove him. That's not your fault, that's partly a learning curve, but also just the fact that some stuff escalates before you have a chance to intervene. I know telling you not to worry about it is pointless, because you are, and will be, disappointed that you didn't help your boy sooner. But, no harm has come of it, and I can tell you for free that when it's a noisy intervention, it's unpleasant and scary, but actually less serious than if it were quiet. Dogs that are really trying to hurt each other don't announce the fact, at least not in the same way. I would also say, if there was no damage, the chances are it was all posturing. Dogs are equipped with a whole mouth of lethal weapons and so, if no damage was done, it goes to show how much they were pulling their punches. Of course, you still don't want it to happen, and you are doing the best thing not having them stay with you, because it may escalate, but in the grand scheme of things, it does sound like it was probably handbags at dawn.
So sorry but I think your sister maybe in denial but I sure you get that anyway. I would keep my dog well away from the gs.I hope everything ok and Axel is ok.
Oh gee, I know how scary that can be. You didn't mention blood or rips or stitches so it really was mostly noise. But next time might be different. It doesn't sound hormonal, no, not to me. If it was hormonal I'd think two intact boys or the neutered boy attacking the intact boy. How friendly were you with your sister's dog before Axel came along? How friendly are you with your sister? You know what I think? Maybe? Your sister's dog sees Axel as a threat to his place in the family. I think it's happened to my dogs too. My sweet gentle Lab girl was beat up by dogs (separate times) belonging to women who liked my dog. Both other dogs were bitches, one spayed, one not. ONe was my dog's littermate brother's owner. I think those bitches sensed a greater than usual liking in their owner for my dog and were jealous. Those two bitches were nice to other dogs. What's your sister's dog like with dogs other than Axel? We had a milder version as well with Jet and my sister's dog. No fights but one day when we were toboganning and I was sitting on the toboggan between the two dogs I really and truly was afraid of Sis's dog. If he went for my dog I was in the way, we went on down the hill to avoid him. Later these two dogs became best friends. So it's possible (and nice if it happens) your two might as well. I've heard about dogs reacting ever after to dogs who look like one who attacked them but I've never seen it happen in my dogs. Oban was attacked by the GR across the street and he does not react to other GR. VEnt away, it is very upsetting. Oban turned out to have multiple puncture wounds in his ears and neck the last time we met a nasty dog (sorry, but yes, it was a neutered male) encounter. I'm sure he got over it nearly the minute a helper finally got the other dog off but I shook for days.
Really sorry, it's an awful experience. I've certainly been in your shoes...wishing I'd be quicker to take my dog away or that I had not let the interaction happen in the first place or that I had reacted faster... But we're only human and hindsight makes it all look more obvious than it was at the time. Totally understand how shaken you have been by it. But it will be ok...no physical harm has been done, I'm sure Axel will be fine, and now you can avoid having the dog stay at your house. Maybe look at it as a bullet dodged? Agree with Snowbunny that the more noise there is, the less actual contact. It's the silent attacks that are the really serious ones...
Hey, I hope you are feeling better today? Really, try not to worry too much. Easier said than done, I know, but male dogs in particular do sometimes get into noisy, posturing fights that are more upsetting for their owners than for the dogs themselves! I agree, you shouldn't have this dog to stay at your house, but I hope it doesn't cause problems for your relationship with your sister. I think if it were me I would avoid Axel and this dog having unstructured play time together (to be honest I'm not a huge fan of that anyway) - but you can probably get the dogs to the stage where you can walk them together. In my dummy-training group we had a situation where two male dogs didn't like each other, and would have a go at each other if possible. I encouraged the owners to keep their dogs engaged and their attention on the handler or on their retrieving work, and not to allow the dogs to stare at each other, or to start posturing. If they did this, they were turned away and then distracted with a treat or toy. As long as we weren't sure they could be trusted together, we worked with a training line - the dog who was working wore a long training line, and just the feeling that they were physically under control meant they came straight back after each retrieve, instead of going over to the other dog, ready to start trouble. After months of working on this, the two male dogs now work completely reliably together, without any problems. I would never allow them free play time together though, I think that would just be asking for problems. I know this isn't the same as your situation Kelsey, I just wanted to say that many of us have been in your situation and understand how upsetting it is, but that there are things you can do to stop things escalating further between your dogs (or between you and your sister!)!
How are you today @Kelsey&Axel ? I agree with the others in terms of noise. Harley has had a few verbal altercations with other dogs and it does sound very loud and scary, but it's usually noise. Harley was attacked by a collie 3 times (needed stitches) and is now reactive to collies, but we've been working on this by meeting up with nice collies and making it a positive experience. It's good that you are aware of Axel's body language, it's something I am a lot more aware of nowadays. I hope Axel is ok and today is a better day.
I hope you and Axel are OK @Kelsey&Axel what a horrible thing to happen but as the others have said if there were no wounds or blood drawn it was all fur coats and no knickers. It is however very frightening and we have probably all been there. Hattie was attacked twice without any warning at all by a flatcoat that did draw blood from her, this same dog attacked Charlie again no warning and bit my husband. If it's any comfort to you I did train Hattie on lead to walk past this dog whilst she looked at me for treats. We would swerve into a field I would cue "look at me" and we walked past on a loose lead. I am sure Axel will be absolutely fine. Could you ask a friend with a nice dog to go on some walks with? I hope you and your sister can discuss this situation and that she can find somewhere else to stay. Take care. xxx
Thank you for all of your sweet replies. Axel is totally fine today and I am better today. I was lucky enough to read @snowbunny reply before I had to step away from my phone for the night, due to dinner at my parents house with my sister As soon as I walked in the door My sister was like 'you really need a trainer. Your dog is aggressive' well, I flew off the handle. She claims that Axel was 100% at fault still. Which then I brought up the time her dog attacked Odie a couple years ago, which her defence was 'well shadow thought Odie was a bunny' but my point was that her dog has some issues, dominance being the biggest one and pray drive a close second. Her dog can do no wrong and she can do no wrong and there is just no winning with her. I basically ended it with my dog is not aggressive and does not need training as all of his doggy language was spot on, her dogs was not and I was done with that conversation. It was an awkward family BBQ to say the least but oh well. I took Axel on a walk this morning and I was nervous to come across a black dog, but I never usually do so I felt fine. Well, guess how many big black dogs were out for a walk this morning, 5!!!! I couldn't believe it but Axel did great and didn't pay much attention. A man with a huge carrier strapped to his back got Axel's ears perked up but that was it I really don't know when I want to try the two dogs together again. After her dog attacking both of mine it really makes me want nothing to do with him. He's a good dog with just people around but different with other dogs.
I am glad you have had some time to put this in perspective and that you aren't just buying into your sister's defensiveness about herself and her dog. Poor Axel and poor you, the shock for both of you must have been exhausting and I can't blame you being hypervigilant for large black dogs but I am glad Axel is not too phased. This is a totally personal comment, not a professional one at all: I am SO tired of people wearing their own insecurities as defensiveness like huge suits of spiky armour. It is exhausting to always have to bow to the stuff they won't work on in themselves. I just want to scream "I am a psychologist, I am not YOUR psychologist! I don't have to be nice and contain ALL your stuff that you are unwilling to work through ALL the time!!! Go get a therapist!" So that is a little message from me to your sister, AND her dog Ok. Enough venting. I am really glad you and beautiful Axel are okay, I love seeing his photos on Instagram and I would hate to know that he is out of sorts.
I know it's really tricky with a family member but don't feel compelled to have the dogs interact again. It's a perfectly good strategy to just avoid having them ever meet again. Glad you had a nice walk with Axel and that he wasn't worried about the other dogs he saw
