Oh, Luna. Or perhaps going back to using "The Squidge" in reference to the plant murder episode is more fitting? Glad she's still alive and you are planning more chili horticulture for next year. I admire your zen.
"Squidge" is for when she's being cute and lovely. She was definitely "Luna" during the Chilli Incident
I think the two articles in my first post cover it pretty well; it's a meaningless word in the context of dog training, because it doesn't have a clear definition. It's not a cue to do something, it's used when we want dogs to stop doing something, and, since dogs are always doing a multitude of things at any one time, how are they to discern exactly what part of the thing they are doing is what you're saying "no", too? We could easily be inadvertently punishing good behaviours - as in my description above of a dog laying quietly on his bed, chewing your shoe. If you say "no", and he finds that punishing enough to change his behaviour, then he's just as likely to associate the "no" with lying quietly on his bed (a behaviour you like and want to keep) as he is with chewing your shoe (a behaviour you don't like and want to extinguish). I hope that's clear?
I agree it's meaningless to dogs. I don't think I use it much, tho we do use meaningless chat a lot anyway with dogs don't we? Primates evolved to chatter chatter chatter lol. I do use 'ah ah' not as a negative but as a 'look at me' cue. I use them interchangeably but find it more natural, for me, to say 'ah ah' when the pup has put her nose somewhere I don't want it. Immediately after the 'ah ah' I tell them what I do want. So I use it a bit like I use 'enough' when two dogs are playing. 'Stop what you are doing and look at me'.
I've started using "readddddyyyyyy" as my interrupter. It's not something I set out to be an interrupter, but it works really well, because it has a huge history of reinforcement following it . "Ready" means I'm going to ask them to do something, which will earn a reward. Which, in itself doesn't sound particularly rewarding, but they love to play the "ready, steady" game, so as soon as I say "ready", it's all eyes on me
Mollie does this very thing, I just swap my foot for something I do want her to chew, like her smoked bone, without saying anything. The behaviour has lessened and lessened over time, but she still does it occasionally, maybe once a week. .
Nice post and great explanation re reward/punishment. I'm definitely guilty of the occasional "noooooooooooooo Ellllaaaaaa" I seem to have accidentally made the word "nope" mean something but I'm not sure that it's actually a punishment (happy for viewpoints on this). An example is if we're heeling and I ask for a drop but Ella gives me a wonky drop I find myself saying "nope" and keep walking. No reward unless she does it right. I've noticed that when I say "nope" she'll generally return to heel and continue along with me, watching for the next cue. I hope she doesn't view it as a punishment but more of a "not quite, let's try again" if that's even possible for her to comprehend.
I calmly put Obi spaniel in the car one day whilst shouting "will you just f**k off!!!!" I felt much better and after a few minutes reflection (me obvs) he came back out and we resumed training
I worked on building sites and construction sites for a number of years. Those boys were my swearing sensi. They were awesomely inventive and completely disgusting.most fun job ever!
Well I suppose you could use 'no' as an interrupter- after all if the dog doesn't understand the actual word it's no different from 'ah-ah' or whatever. In the example of the dog lying quietly chewing a shoe you could say 'no' while removing the shoe and then praise the dog for still lying down (or put it back into a down and then reward, if it had got up.) This isn't what I'd do personally- I'd say 'leave it' or 'swap', depending on the item - but I can imagine 'no' used like this without being harsh. The problem is that 'no' is so easy to say that if we actually plan to use it, it's easy to fall into a cycle of negativity and nagging. Most of us admit it comes out sometimes unintentionally, so making it a planned part of training really doesn't seem like a good idea. I aspire to be like Emily Larlham (kikopup, dogmantics) - who doesn't even use 'no reward' markers - but have to check myself constantly. It's so easy when I ask Molly to pick up a particular item and she brings the wrong one to say 'no' - not in a cross way but just 'oops' - and I'd really like to stop myself from doing this.
Absolutely, that's called a "No reward marker", or NRM. It's a piece of information, like a click which says "you got that", but instead saying "try again". Views are mixed on the use of them. There was a study which showed they weren't beneficial, I believe (I'll look for it in a bit) and they can cause stress to some dogs, but not to others. Some people view them as giving very valuable information. I wouldn't use them intentionally with my older dogs because of their anxiety (although I do sometimes let out a "try again!" by mistake).
I can't put my hand on the study I was looking for, but here is an article by Karen Pryor: https://clickertraining.com/node/2848. She argues that, by the time the dog understands the NRM, it has become positive punishment. You might also be interested in this article by Denise Fenzi: https://denisefenzi.com/2014/05/01/behavior-chains-part-10/ I did find a different study to the one I was looking for. I've only read the abstract, but it says that between a control group that had only a positive reward marker, and the trial group which had both positive markers and NRMs, there was no increase in stress levels, but the control group (no NRMs) performed better at learning the task. http://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1025&context=hc_sas_etds That contradicts the other study I read, which I think did find a difference in stress levels between the two groups - if I can find it, I'll link it
He is still a spaniel @heidrun I was beyond frustrated mostly with myself when our hunting was truly dire and he was just romping about doing exactly what he wanted mostly cos he didn't have a clue what I wanted I think. It's been worth hanging in there as you can see
