Warning: Long post! Other dogs at training - aggressive behaviour

I know I have vented about this before, so please bare with me. I previously had an issue in the clicker training class with a male dog that was mounting Harley. That class is finished now and I have signed up for preparation classes for canine good citizen. So it is a pretty easy going class with a come when you want approach, so you pay per class and each class some of the aspects of CGC are covered.
The trainer is the same one we have always had and she is a animal behaviourist as well.
So we arrive at class and I really wasnt expecting much from Harls because she is now 11 months and will need a good part of year to prepare and reach maturity. But I enjoy the classes and our clicker training classes really brought us closer together.
All the dogs, barr one are new to us. There was a GSD from a previous home obedience class that we attended and her and Harls are fine with each other.
It was really nice that we had a spread of breeds attend - from a King Charles Cavalier spaniel to a BC, GSD, Staffordshire Terrier x and its emotional support JRT to a young Saluki (belonging to the trainer) and a Dobermann. Turns out the Staffy (as they are known in South Africa) is a rescue dog and has worked very hard with her owner on overcoming a number of issues but remains nervous of Labradors because one had recently charged her. So her owner kept her distance and all was fine. Harley bonded nicely with the Spaniel, the Dobermann and the Saluki. But the BC was a problem. It is VERY snappy and the owner just lets it up to all the dogs even though the trainer asked her repeatedly to keep her distance. Harley just avoided her and I kept moving away but the BC had negative interactions with all the other dogs too. And the owner brushes it off by saying the dog has a good heart, it just "swears" at other dogs.
For exercises we did the open door / close door sit stay etc and Harley was great, I just kept the stay short and didnt expect too much. Then we did a fun course filled with stays, jumps and sits, a table, tunnel and a recall. Again I kept the stays short and Harls was great. Of course she targetted all the cones - lol and then looked at me expectantly.
I only did two rounds of the course because my back was very painful and it was a lot for a young lab brain. I opted to sit at the base of a tree about 15 metres away from the course and just click and treat Harls for looking at me. By the end of the second time through the course I could see her attention and focus were becoming a strain.
The trainer came up with her Saluki on lead and I asked her to move a bit because Harley dearly wanted to play with the very sweet pup (6 months old) but play involved leaping about and I was seated, and sore. She moved over and Harley and I settled again. But (urgh) then the BC and owner come up right to us and the BC snaps at Harley - Harley at this stage is sitting between my legs so the snap was very close to me too and it was lips up, teeth bared and ugly. Next thing Harley growls and barks/bites at the BC and her hackles are all up. So I get very angry. It is the first time Harley has EVER reacted to a dog/or any animal like that and I am quite sure it was in defense of me, and hell's bells I was on my bum, on the ground with my dog on my lap - if an altercation had incurred I would have been right in the middle, not to mention again that my gentle, kind and very well socialised young dog has had to behave completely out of character. I immediately jump up and say "Don't being your dog up to Harley" and the trainer also tells her (again) to keep distance. I walk over to another tree, a good 7 m or so away and sit down again. I don't want Harley to feel like I am rattled and upset. And true as bob this woman comes towards us again. But I see it in time and jump up and take Harley away. Again the trainer asks her to keep her distance and the woman comments that her dog isn't aggressive it is just moody sometimes and it is good for her dog to get to know others. Here comes the vent *Has she had a lobotomy?!!!!* SHe seems completely oblivious and insensitive to her dogs behaviour!
Luckily, we had a chance for Harley to have a bit of time with the Dobermann, who has a lovely calm nature and they just sat together nicely, and she had a kiss with the Spaniel and a quick silly play with the Saluki. So I don't think it has caused anxiety or nervousness for her. But it has definitely annoyed the jeepers out of me and made MY hackles stand up.
On the way out of the class the owner of the Spaniel stopped me at the gate to give Harley a love and say what a lovely dog she is, and then told me how afraid she is of the BC. She is an elderly lady and said that she had once been bitten by a BC in her face so the snapping from this dog bothers her.
I am definitely going to speak to the trainer and have to figure out how to be even MORE clear with the BC owner, even if I am just a straight forward rude person.
Should I be doing anything else with Harley to make sure she is okay?
Last night her BFF pitbull and staffy friends came over for a playdate and there were no issues at all but there never are with them so I think she is okay?

 

Oh dear I am sorry... If it's any help, I am sure Harley will be ok. Personally, I wouldn't go back if the border collie and owner remain part of the class, that is beyond bad manners, it is downright dangerous.

 

Crickey I would be really mad too and you reacted exactly how I would. I have such an issue with BC as I have only ever met one nice one the rest are snappy and in my own humble opinion should not be pets, they are a working dog in every sense. I would definitely talk to the trainer and maybe you could ask the nice lady that approached you at the end of the class to talk to the trainer also. Taking Harley out with calm good natured dogs is the way I would go to keep her confidence levels up.

Charlie who was on lead had two BC's up growling and snapping in his face yesterday in the woods, the family took a while to get their dogs back on lead. Charlie was whining and I think frightened. I was really proud of him for not reacting but he did have every reason to retaliate but we just walked away in the opposite direction.

I hope you and Harley are OK, it's unerving when things like this happen. xxx

 

Thanks for replies @Karen and @charlie. It was my feeling yesterday that I didn't want to be intruded on like that again. And last night when we had the play date the owners of the pitbull said that when they have been in that class the BC owner gave them a wide berth but went up to other dogs and the dog was snappy.
Also, what makes me think she is utterly silly is that near the end of the class there was a feather duster laying on ther ground, the Saluki pup had been carrying it around as a her prize earlier (she really is very michievious and adorable) and the BC owner picked the feather duster up and was waving it around for the BC, who was barking and leaping at it. Of course all the other dogs immediately get on edge - personally Harley was eyeing the duster when the Saluki had it and was a bit jealous I think, but she lunged and became excited when it was waved around. And again, the trainer had to ask the BC owner to take the dog for a walk, away from the others. I really think to myself, how clueless can you be? I really am venting now, thank you for allowing me the space.

 

Vent away - we've all been confronted with idiot dog owners... World is full of them, I sometimes feel!!

 

I must add that I was a bit grouchy near the end because my back was paining and I dearly wanted to say that the trainer is clearly very good with dogs...but let me give some people boundary training here...lol. But even I wasnt that grouchy.

 

Have to say, I think your biggest problem is your trainer. She has spoken to the eejit with the BC several times, to no avail. She needs to take it up a notch and warn the dog will be banned from class. That dog needs training beyond what she can offer, apparently, in class anyway. Maybe you and some other people need to confront the trainer. Why didn't she warn the BC owner BEFORE she got right up to you, you seated on the ground?

 

You have to do what is best for Harley (and you).

If that means being completely frank with the owner of the BC then so be it. If it means telling the trainer that the behaviour of the BC's owner is such that a number of her customers are going to stop going to the classes then tell them. And, ultimately, if neither of the above have any impact do leave the class.

 

I think it's largely the responsibility of the person in charge - she has already told this owner repeatedly not to do what she is doing, and she is being ignored. If she continues to do so, she should be excluded from class. I would be having blunt words with the class conductor to tell her that, if she can't influence this owner and isn't prepared to be firmer with her when she goes against what she's being asked to do, then she isn't putting the safety of the rest of her students as a priority, and that isn't good enough.

I also wouldn't be afraid of being rude to the owner at this point. You've tried the polite option, it's not worked and so I think being rude in order to protect your dog from an unnecessary, and potentially dangerous, situation is more than justified.

 

It sounds like you are doing a class like the one I am doing with Red - Kennel Club Good Citizen Dog Scheme. Do you have a description sheet of what's being done? On the one I have for what we are doing, it says:

'Any uncontrolled, mouthing, barking, growling or other threatening behaviour is not acceptable.....'

I know the first evening I went one of the people involved were explaining a few things - she happened to mention that one person came with a dog that did a lot of snapping etc. He was asked not to come back again!

Your trainer told the BC owner several times to keep her distance with her dog. The trainer needs to be a bit more pro active I think.

 

What an idiot the BC owner is! As others have said, I would contact the instructor before the next class and tell her your concerns and that you won't continue if the BC owner comes near you. This woman sounds especially silly as it sounds as though you have plenty of space to spread out. The instructor needs to take responsibility.

 

I'm ticked off on your behalf. It sounds like you have a really nice class environment with the exception of this one person who is holding you and the other teams (plus the trainer!) hostage. No bueno.

Harley sounds much better behaved than Brogan at the same age, but this was a huge trigger for him as well. I learned that I absolutely could not sit on the beach with him on my lap because he would take that to mean "any unknown dog on this entire beach is a threat" and would go after them (or try) if they dared to walk past on HIS beach. If I was standing, it was A-OK and he'd just play with the other dog. Sitting - no way. By three years old, he was completely over it, but it was a worry for a good while.

Ditto. Plus I bet you'd get plenty of support from the other humans.

I will say, what you describe sounds very much like my (kind of ex-) friend who runs the local rescue group. She has one dog who has similar behaviour and her human denies it is anything serious at every turn. I will never trust her dog as I saw her try to go after Brogan multiple times. Would she have actually hurt him if I wouldn't have gotten in the middle? Who knows? I wasn't going to wait to find out. But her human denying that there was even a problem ("Oh, she's just talking to him") was infuriating.

I hope you can find a solution and you and Harley can keep enjoying your classes together!

 

No, Atemas, we didn't get a sheet of what we are doing and although it isn't a problem with the schedule I do think it would be nice to have something that says what you mentioned above. The owner with the rescue Staffy was so sensitive to her dog. She was attentive to her dog and they worked beautifully and what was so interesting was the little JRT that is the Staffy's companion was off lead and wandered a bit amoungst the other dogs but completely kept to itself if it wasn't with its owner and sister dog. At one stage Harley was in a stay and the JRT pottered passed us and I was a little distracted but neither the JRT or Harley even blinked at each other. So I don't mind unconventional training but Harley also has a future planned for her as part of my private practice and I don't want her unsettled unnecessarily. It is not fair.

 

Harley was getting clicks and treats and attempting to kiss me until this happened. She has never guarded me or DH in the past. But luckily, last night when the Pitbull and Staffy were at our place they were super happy to see both DH and myself and bombarded us with love and Harls did not blink. So I am leaning towards she is okay. But I have to stay calm so I don't trigger her.

 

This seems like the situation as the dog school was just a very unique set of circumstances that understandable influenced her behaviour - I'm sure she'll be fine. Glad she got to play with her doggie friends are your house.

 

I found this online:
https://rosespuppyschool.me/canine-good-citizen-tests/
I was interested to see the similarities and differences compared with the UK version.

The BC owner might take note of bronze point 9:
'Two handlers and their dogs must meet and shake hands without their dogs interfering with each other in any way.'

As an aside, I noticed that controlled isolation is at your bronze level, whereas it doesn't occur until gold level in the UK.

 

Oh great Joy, thanks for that link. It is very interesting and Harls really should be fine for the bronze in about a year Her ability to focus and concentrate is still best in short bits and I really don't expect more and I don't want to sour her enjoyment of training.

 

@Joy I searched a little more after you found that link and I found the official Kennel Union of South Africa info and it is VERY useful:
https://www.kusa.co.za/index.php/ku...good-citizen-test/691-kusa-c-g-c-bronze-level

 

Sorry, that is appalling behaviour on the part of the BC's owner. The trainer ought to be removing her from the class if she cannot comply with requests to stay away. She needs a different environment to help her dog, not to disrupt a class working on their Good Citizen.

 

Like with a classroom of school children , if one is disruptive and causing issues for others , that child is excluded and the parents spoken to and given a warning ! Just the same for dogs in a class, to me anyway ! I blame the trainer for not having control of the class , and the owner of the BC too, what a shame when one can spoil things for others !