After last weeks crazy hour of agility with Ripple he seemed to be a bit calmer this week - obviously this is all relative, calmer for Ripple is another persons 'over the top' dog . Unfortunately when we did anything off lead he decided to play with a young collie, this was extremely rough play and not unsurprisingly the owners weren't too thrilled. Mostly, however, Ripple did quite well, although he wouldn't go over the 'A' frame. The problem I have is that in order to get the dogs to use the equipment the instructor likes them to be quite hyped up (I can understand this as one or two are really laid back), with Ripple this can be a nuisance as he quickly gets over excited. When we did the last run where several bits of equipment were put together Ripple actually did this perfectly the first time - jump, tunnel, jump, turn, jump, turn, jump, tunnel, jump. She then asked us to go again immediately and Ripple started to go then suddenly went into his old puppy jumping and biting frenzy. He tore my sleeve and managed to get his teeth in my arm, all the while growling. This is something I've dealt with loads when he was younger and only very occasionally occurs now. I know it looks terrible to outsiders and it isn't much fun for me but I can usually get Ripple under control fairly quickly now. My biggest problem is with the reaction of the instructor, she said that Ripple had an issue with dominance and obviously felt he was in charge. She suggested I really needed to address this . I think this was as a result of both his play with the collie and also his overexcitement which resulted in the clothes tearing and biting episode. Now this is not how I see Ripple's behaviour and not how I see this type of over excitement being referred to on this forum. I am now unsure whether to take Ripple back to agility (despite the fact I've paid in advance) or possibly we may be asked to leave anyway. I feel very deflated by this morning and don't know what to do at all.
Sorry to hear this @Stefffis, that sounds like a tough class. I've never attended agility classes or training so I don't know what the normal approach is, but I would also be annoyed with an approach that actively tried to get Jess wound up. And I also feel that if he'd done a perfect round once, asking him to repeat it seems to set him up to fail. Ditto with the playing with other dogs in the midst of training. So it's unfortunate that the instructor is just blaming Ripple as it seems that he actually did quite a lot right in the class.
Yes, I always stop if Ripple does something perfectly, and he gets loads of praise and a reward, therefore stopping on a high. It seems she couldn't see past his 'bad' behaviour, unlike my gundog trainer who always manages to pick something good out of what Ripple does even if I feel the lesson has been an absolute disaster.
I think it's unfair to say Ripple was being dominant, as agility can really make some dogs go over the top. It's exciting. Quinn is fairly chill and some days in agility she would run rampant. In the agility classes we have taken, there has been no hyping up the dogs...in fact, in the instances that Quinn went off to her own devices/playing with other dogs in the class, she had to go back on leash and do some calm exercises to refocus. I think agility is probably super exciting for ripple so you may have to scale back on the excitement. When we did the same series back to back, we always end with a 5 second stay on a platform (start and finish). I would put Quinn in a longer down stay to make sure she wasn't going to go too crazy for the next lap. Do you have a pause like that? Would having him attached on a short leash help? This could help stop playing with other dogs, which gets them even more excitable. Because I was anxious about Quinn bothering other dogs, I had a very short handle drag from her harness that I could grab if she looked like she might bolt. I would give it another go. I kept a journal of Quinn's early agility classes and some weeks she regressed and then the following week would be so well behaved and focused. Some activities/exercises may be stressful to them in some way.
Agility is super exciting even without ramping the dogs up! My two are pretty chilled out dogs, but they quiver with excitement when waiting at the start line. I would definitely not be looking to get them any more aroused. Maybe that's necessary for some of the other dogs, but not mine, and it sounds like not Ripple, either. The dominance thing would put my back up. She's obviously out of date and needs to do more reading about that subject. All in all, she doesn't sound like the best trainer. What was your intro to the A-frame? Was it a full height one? We had an introduction to it at our last (third) session, where we started by working on the end - that is, we lured the dog up and immediately turned around to work on the end "contact" position, where the dog has two feet on the frame and two feet on floor. We did this both sides multiple times, then we went to a learner frame, about half the height of the "real" one, which they were more than happy to go over, still just practicing our ending. This was a great intro and we'll be able to progress to the full height one at our next session, I should think, now they have the idea. I would really struggle to do much learning at the beginner stage in a group environment with an excitable dog; is there any way you can exchange the remainder of your sessions for 1-2-1s that you may get more out of? It should be fun, not a trial
I agree. It's not dominance related and definitely excitement related. Lucky is easily overexcited - to the point of losing his mind and leaping around barking at everything nearby, and of the two trainers I've worked with, only one was really able to help me train him. I'd consider finding one to one classes, with a trainer who can help you teach an on-off switch without the distraction of other dogs. I think a lot of agility trainers are used to this, because dogs that are good at agility are often the more hyperactive on the go sort of dogs. If I had a trainer who said my dog was being dominant, I'd rethink how much they know about dogs and effective training methods!
That all echoes my thoughts about the trainer and her comments about dominance, I felt it was outdated and put me off her. It's made me feel agility is not really for us and that I'm better off sticking to the gundog training. @snowbunny I asked if there was a smaller A frame, she said she wanted to persevere with the bigger one but she would lower it if Ripple continued to have trouble. It is a 5 week beginner course so only another 3 weeks to go if I continue, I certainly wouldn't carry on with this trainer if I wanted to do agility on a permanent basis with Ripple. I'm not even really sure about 1-2-1 with her as she obviously has formed an opinion about Ripple that I'm not happy with. Maybe one good thing to come out of it is identifying what Ripple's weaknesses are around other dogs and giving me a strong idea of what I need to work on.
Always find an alternative to any trainer who calls your dog dominant!! So unbelievably out of date. The majority of dogs don't perform well if they are too aroused. Science now tells us that over aroused dogs don't learn well, under aroused dogs don't either so you want a dog that is alert and interested . It sounds as if Ripple went over threshold repeating the exercise, which the trainer should have been alert to. The jumping, biting and other behaviours can be displacement behaviours showing he was uncomfortable and really didn't know what he was doing.
OK I am really trying to understand this...Ripple is a young labrador, he has only completed one beginners class, he is your usual mix of lab excitability...and the trainer RAMPS up the arousal levels? Seriously? Blimey when Benson first went to agility, everything possible was done to keep him calm and mellow, mainly because he just exploded into a chocolate frenzy when he got into the ring..after a year he started to calm down.. BUT our trainer was fantastic, and although Benson was never that good, it was really fun and he loved going, meeting his pals and racing backwards round the course. So, I actually think Ripple has been a star, he is grasped the concept and tackled the equipment really well...you just have a c**p trainer...
Thank you @Beanwood that makes me feel 100 times better. To be fair I don't think there are many occasions when Ripple doesn't enjoy himself .
To add to Kate's wise words, Luna hasn't even started agility yet because she's too young, but she thinks the best fun is to run up to a jump (J has made a load for me and they're in one of our fields), and run through it, picking the pole up in her mouth as she goes, then doing laps of honour with it before settling down for a chew. I bet Ripple doesn't do that!
Today's agility was marginally better. Unfortunately the first dog let off lead - a very young collie - made a bee line for Ripple and wound him up into overload again. But I took him out for a 10 minute break and he calmed down. I decided to do all the exercises on the lead to keep him under control and this worked a lot better. I was the only person saying 'calm calm' before we started on any equipment, but this also seemed to work. Ripple managed the A frame today and also did really well on turns round the cones and jumps. He wouldn't go up the raised walkway so to finish on a high I took him over the A frame again (despite the trainer saying I should keep trying the walkway). I think it was better today as I took more control over what Ripple did, although I may not have made myself too popular with the trainer. Probably agility is not for me but it was worth a try and I shall do the last 2 weeks of the beginners course anyway.
Oh my, oh my! I have written the exact same story about my agility experience and our instructors attitude! We too were encouraged to use tansy smell sausage or cheese which got Homer into a complete frenzy and then was told he was dominant and I had no authority over him. The main trainer actually said "ALL Labrador males are dominant and they ALL should be castrated!" Why I didn't walk out there and then I have no idea but I persevered mostly because most of our classes were with another trainer and I knew Homer responded well to the excersise and mental stimulation. The standard poodles were slowed to run a mock but if Homer stepped one toe out of line it was an issue. We stuck it out for nearly a year then eventually we had a day of disasters which ended with the bully trainer yelling at me across the field in front of everyone I left never to return. Sadly this cannot be the same trainer as we are in London. It saddens me that there is more than one agility trainer out there calling our labs doninant when they are encouraged to be overexcited.
