Feeling a tad discouraged this morning. Many of you know the history of my dog Simba, but for those who don't, we got him about four years ago as an eight month old puppy whose owner (my son's then girlfriend) and family couldn't cope with him anymore. He came to us housetrained, and walked nicely on the leash, but other than that was pretty much untrained. It was quickly apparent that he had been hauled around by the collar a lot, he was very collar reactive and would snap/bite if you touched or grabbed his collar. He also didn't much like being handled, and would have the same reaction. So I assume their only means of controlling him were to pull him around by the collar or to physically manhandle him. He also had a lot of resource guarding. So....with a lot of help from the forum and clicker training, I got him past most of these issues, and he is a completely different dog from when we first got him to be sure. He has come a long way! However I am still a bit wary with how he might react with new people handling him. Old habits die hard, and I always let people know about his collar issues, etc because although he is absolutely fine with us handling him and touching his collar, etc, I'm never too confident about what happens when I"m not there. He also snapped at our vet last time we went, which necessitated a muzzle being put on for the last part of the exam. Now our vet is also a friend, and he is the one who often comes and takes him for walks when we are gone for the day, so it's not like he doesn't know him. But the thermometer up the bum, and the spray up the nose, were just too much, so when the vet came at him with the needle, he snapped. Anyhow....the other part of the picture is that I live in a place where I have very few resources for dog care. There are no doggie sitters or walkers here, nor do I have any family here I can call on. So when we are gone for the day I have to call on friends to stop by and feed him and/or walk him if they are so inclined. I don't have a lot of friends I can call on to do this. None of my friends have dogs, which make it tricky as I can't even reciprocate with doggie care for them. So basically I have 3-4 people I can ask, and out of those there are only 2, my vet and another friend who lives close by, that I can really rely on. Yesterday we were going to be gone from 1PM until around midnight. So I asked my friend who lives nearby to stop by and feed him and take him for a walk after dinner, which she was happy to do. To back up a bit, I have a harness for the pooch to avoid the collar problems, but apparently (I didn't know this) she had tried to put the harness on and didn't do it right last time, so this time she figured it out and was reaching down to pick up his foot to put it through the opening, and he bit her. No growl, just a snap that broke skin. It's so discouraging. I feel so bad for my friend. And discouraged. He is a very happy dog and great with people in 99% of situations. But I can't ask people to come and walk him if he is going to bite them. One solution would be to have the harness on him, so they don't have to physically put it on, I suppose. Or to forget the harness all together and just attach the leash to the collar, but then you have the collar issue possibly raising its head. I also have another harness that slips over his head and then buckles underneath, but it still involves some manipulation of the dog, and you have to get it over his head. I dunno if that's better or not. Ack. My friend was very gracious about the whole thing. I told her it would be up to her to let me know if she was comfortable with doing this again, just to let me know, but I would understand if she wouldn't want to. I don't think I would in the same circumstances. Anyhow, feeling bummed out about it. I don't know how to train this away, as at this point I feel it's only going to happen when we are not there. So...I don't know.
Oh Lisa , I am so sorry , I can feel your sadness and total despair in your post . Maybe leaving Simba with a harness on would be the best plan , I just don't know if I`m being honest , but it seems the better solution , so sorry xxx
Yes. Also it could be that the walks are out, and that I just have people stop by to feed him. He is fine in the back yard until the weather gets really cold, at which point people have to let him in and out for bathroom breaks.
I'm sorry to read about this, it must be a worry for you, I'm sure. It seems like leaving the harness on is a good option, unless he would chew it? And also I suppose as you say just getting people to feed him and let out. I can sympathasise regarding lack of dog walkers etc, I live in a very rural part of the UK and there is no one on the doorstep, and those that would come charge a mileage that makes it very expensive. Like you a have 2 or 3 people who are helpful, plus my son and daughter when they can.
I'm really sorry to read this, Lisa. My solution to the problem would be just not to ask your friends to walk him. Drop in and feed him and let him out for a quick pee but just don't ask them to handle Simba. A missed walk every so often won't hurt him.
I’m so sorry. I know you’ve worked very hard with Simba. I think I’d be inclined to take him for a walk before you leave and then just ask your friend to let him in the garden for a break -I presume they could entice him back in with food and wouldn’t need to touch him.
I feel your upset through your words. I agree that the occasional missed walk wouldn't be a major issue. I wouldn't leave a harness on incase he becomes reactive with that, or gets his paws caught in it and hurts himself. I hope your friend is ok and I hope this doesn't put her off helping you. Sending you big hugs x
Yes I was worried about keeping the harness on in case he got caught on something. I tend to agree that perhaps the best solution would be to forget the walks and just have people come feed and let him in/out. Tossing a treat to go outside works wonders (otherwise he can be reluctant to go outside as well). And the same with going in. It’s amazing the magical powers the rattle of kibble in a bowl has on him, so getting him inside after doing his business should be no problem.
So sorry to hear this @Lisa. You've worked so hard with Simba. I would be a little concerned at leaving him with a harness on while out of the house just in case of accidents. Can you lerhaps get a harness that just clips around him with nothing to go over head or put legs through? If not it might be best to just have friends call in to feed and allow out for a toilet break. You could look at training for handling paws with lots of reward for allowing and have friends do it. Another thought is whether you have checked his paws/leg to make sure thee's not a problem there and it's hurting. My main worry would be around Simba going straight for the snap/bite rather than warn which is why I would check for any pain etc. Is it possible that your friend missed a warning?
I'm sorry Simba has had a blip. You've clearly worked wonders with him. I'd be inclined to forget the walk I think, and a quick vet check for any pain like Jojo mentioned.
Hi there I know how you feel and I share your concerns. We have a four year old lab who was and sometimes is very nervous with new situations. Can verge in nervous aggression at times. I recently changed jobs and we had to get a dog walker in (and I know you said resources in your area are limited) but no word of a lie since she has been walked by Sam our dog walker. She is completely a different dog. Another thing I realised is that even though I know dogs can pick up on fear or excitement or anxiety from their owners, I didn't actually realise that I, despite my best attempts, was still slightly apprehensive when new situations occurred. My advice is to persevere with what you are doing and maybe seek more professional help. But as people have already said maybe walks are out. Just get your friend to bob round to let him out. Perhaps sit with him whilst watching tv or reading a book so he gets used to her and then take tiny steps when progress is achieved. Don't despair. He's worth all the effort you've made. Just a bit of a hiccup xx
The ex-girlfriend and her family (ie. original owners) did Simba a great disservice... Fortunately you came along, and you've done an amazing job with him. What happened in no way negates all your training. It is pretty much near impossible to completely un-learn things learned in fear and pain - the brain tucks away and holds onto those things just in case. Despite that you've done a wonderful job of overlaying all of Simba's bad experiences with good ones and giving him better behavioural options. I agree with those who've suggested that, next time, just having someone come in to feed and check on him is all you need to do. Simba would be much more comfortable with that option, rather than having someone he doesn't fully trust try to handle him.
That is sad to hear Lisa. I would go with Heidrun's suggestion - just drop the walks for now, just do the toilet breaks. And I would worry about leaving the harness on unsupervised - I'm not THAT delighted about having a collar on either. And your friend will obviously be a bit cautious. She will need time to build up confidence being around Simba too I would guess. Hugs to you Lisa xx
So sorry Lisa. Again, I wouldn't leave a harness on unsupervised, I won't even leave mine with collars on when there's nobody home. I feel for you and Simba as you have worked your butt off to help him overcome his collar problems and you have made great headway so keep going. Sending to you and Simba. xxx
Thanks all. Feeling a little better tonight. I agree with the consensus to forego the walks. He will survive without! Thanks for the suggestions about the different style harness. I do have one that doesn’t involve lifting the leg to put it. The person still has to reach around the dog’s body to do it up though, which might also be a problem. Not sure. We also had the thought that maybe he had a sore leg or paw, but I checked him over. No excuse there. I tend to agree with you, @Oberon that I don’t think I can overcome these small blips of fear/threat-based reactions. But I can manage the environment so Simba doesn’t need to react. So that’s what we will do. Appreciate the support. As always the forum is a lifesaver.
Just coming across this. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with this, Lisa, I know how horrible it makes you feel, especially when you've put in s much work. You've had some great advice and I'd absolutely concur; he will manage without walks on those occasions you need to leave him. Maybe use of kongs, or a snuffle mat, wobbler etc for his meal so he gets a bit of stimulation. Big hugs.
An option not mentionned yet is to leave him outside in a safe, appropriate (heat, cold, rain etc.) kennel run. Then he could pee and poop when he has to. Somebody would still have to come and feed him but could slip his food through the gate. After my childhood dog being an outside dog and seeing the problems we had with that, kids tormenting him, I would not like to leave my dog out unattended now. But my VEt is of the opinion it's one of the best ways to keep a dog - they can move around more, they can pee, they can observe the world and nature. But often they bark. How close are your neighbours?
My backyard is actually really well set up for this. First of all we have no back alley, we share a back fence with our neighbours, which eliminates random people walking by and causing trouble. As our lot is quite long, we actually share a fence with two neighbours, both of which are older couples. One has grandkids who visit occasionally. They have a tree fort in the tree that backs onto the fence so once in while I see them in there interacting with Simba but I haven’t seen them tormenting mainly because he pretty much ignores them. He hardly ever barks except on the rare occasion, generally when there are cats or deer around. Unfortunately the two dogs next door will generally get more attention from the kids as they are very aggressive and will bark and bark at the kids. Simba just wanders around and ignores it all. So I’m not worried about that. Especially as they are not there a lot, and it’s really only in the summer that they are out in the tree fort. One thing I do have to tackle this winter is shelter for the pooch. He can go into our garage, which is insulated but not heated, and we have a crate in there which we have covered with blankets and also has cosy blankets in it, so it is warm enough even in the coldest days. Our previous dog would go there if he had to be outside for any length of time in the winter and it was all good. However when we first got Simba we couldn’t have him go in the garage because he would eat everything in sight and I just couldn’t trust that he wouldn’t chew on electrical cords, etc that are stored there. (Or get into the recycling bins which are also there) Once we could trust him we started to allow him in but he had developed a “can’t go in there” mindset so it’s not his first resort for shelter. I put treats and food in the crate but he will take it and then go out onto the lawn to chew it. I also wonder if it’s because it smells a lot like the previous dog (i’ve Washed all the blankets and whatnot but still I’m sure to him the odour remains). Anyway it’s not like when it’s really cold that he would be out there all day or anything, but still I need to get something figured out. Even half and hour when we get our -20 C temps is too long for a dog who is an indoor dog. Generally I leave him in and then have someone come to let him out for a wee and give food if we are going to be gone for a day or whatever in the winter. Still I would like to give him some kind of shelter out there just in case. Looking at a dog house of some sort. Anyhow we will figure something out!
