Ok so my little patterdale is now 5 months old and coming along with herrecall when we are on our own no distractions like sniffing at grass etc. But she sees another dog she wants to play. Daddy can go jump in the sea for all she cares. Yep I know she is young she will learn .......eventually. And I have a long way to go. My question is about the treats I give her. She has cooked liver which is only for rewards and not for anything else. Now what if sometimes I was to give her liver and sometimes cheese (which she never has but I know she likes) when she comes back. More of a way of her thinking so what kind of treat am I going to get this time if I hurry back. Would this work or not? Would really value peoples opinion on this. I really do need her to get a good recall for when she goes out and about with me in to the hills and I don't want her chasing about after the wildlife,
Hi Les, I change my treats regularly so that my dogs don't know what is coming. Sometimes it's leftover chicken, cheese, my homemade liver or pilchard treats, fish skin treats etc. I always have a jackpot treat on me for that special reward x
Fabulous thanks for that Charlie that is just what I wanted to hear, That has helped a lot. Appreciate that. I like the pilchard treat but as she has that in with her died food twice a week can't really use that one but never mind
I use roast chicken, hot dog sausage, parmesan cheese, roast beef and will cut up and use left over pork sausage or beefburgers. High value treats are worth it to train a good solid recall. With clients I advise the use of a long lead with a harness if recall is unreliable. What you don't want is pup to ignore your recall in favour of other dogs so prevention is better. In the event of pup ignoring your recall, go and collect her and pop on the lead and walk away (cool, calm and relaxed) as we don't want our pups to learn they can ignore our call
I agree to mix it up. You can even make boring treats more exciting by making them into a game - such as catch or scatter them on the ground to sniff out. However, the point of treats is to reward a response, not to bribe. So, if your dog is in the situation where she is thinking about whether it's worth coming back based on what you have to offer, you're on the wrong track, because, however good that treat is, eventually something in the environment will trump it. This is where working towards a trained response comes in. That's where your dog hears the recall cue and turns towards you without considering weighing up if it's worth it. This takes a long time of working in small increments of difficulty, doing what we call "proofing" against distractions. Of course, you want your dog to feel rewarded for coming back, so using the "big guns" in terms of treats is worth it for recall. I always reward for a recall but use a variable schedule of different values. Mostly it's food rewards because they're convenient, but the ultimate for my two older dogs is to chase a ball, so that is their "jackpot" reward. Because it's such an amazing thing (the ball is only ever used as a reward for a requested behaviour, so it is cherished), they get a rush of good feelings about coming back when I whistle, which goes towards getting that trained response. I hope that makes sense?
Yep I get that jojo I do use the long lead when I am out in the hills but not on the beach where of course most other dogs are so long lead in future there I think. Guess its all about practice practice practice. Silly girl that she is she loves loves to play with other dogs. Proofing is the key it seems
Yep that makes a lot of sense snowbunny and as you say it is all about working on a trained response and as I have been reading up on proofing I know what you mean. Guess it is just going to take time. I do like the ball jackpot but she usually plays with mr stick (a kong type throw stick so not sure how that will work as she would rather go play with a dog than her toy) Time and patience I think don't you and after all she is just 5 months but not to early to learn
Exactly that. At her age, my dogs weren't really interested in balls, but it's something I've nurtured to become a powerful reinforcer. My one-year old is just starting to show signs of the ball being reinforcing. It's about working with the dog you have at this precise moment in time. Just another note; you don't want to get into the habit of recalling your dog away from things she really wants (like other dogs), or the recall becomes punishing and therefore poisoned. It's best to train your pup to ignore other dogs until she is released to play with them. This can be done through LAT training (mentioned in numerous other places on the forum)
Yep see what you mean snowbunny and yes I can also understand that not letting her do what she really wants like playing could be as she sees it a punishment. You must forgive me for being a bit thick but LAT training. What is that? an abbreviation for what. I really do need to get her recall nailed and any help will go a long way. Thanks again
LAT @Len Smith stands for Look At That training and is a method used most frequently with reactive dogs to help them cope with people/dogs/situations which they struggle to cope with exhibiting fear/frustration/flight/aggressive behaviours. In all honesty as a trainer I would not be overly concerned with your dog's level of recall at 5 months of age. Continue working on the recall in different scenarios as much as possible and rewarding well for the recall to you. When you have at least a 90% success rate of recall against disyraction you can start to reduce the value of your treats but until then you want your dog to learn that the best place to be when you call is by your side for something really tasty. Not all dogs are overly enamoured with balls as a reward for recall but treats are fine if that motivates your dog. My girl would be offended with the offer of a ball for a recall but will happily accept one piece of kibble. A pup that I'm training is happy with a squeaky toy plus treats. So just work with what work for YOUR dog and practice as much as possible
Feeling a tad deflated today - Coco has good recall with low distractions. Today, we were at a place for the second time ever, on lead (no dogs/people/wildlife - just pretty countryside with good sniffs) - he struggled with his "puppy recall" ( on lead, leaping backwards and recalling dog) - no bribes, just my usual treat pouch with usual treats - I definitely don't want to resort to bribes, but perhaps I should mix up the rewards? He's great with this everywhere else I've been.
I wouldn't feel deflated Sue as you have only been there twice. I would just take some really fantastic treats next time Maybe there is something there you don't know about but Coco does x
Thanks so so much for your help JoJo I really do appreciate it. Yep I guess I sometimes forget that Tess is just 5 months. She has come so far in such a short time. She will get there eventually. Heck when I see her do things such as sit and stay on command and people say to me that there older dog can't do that she makes me so proud of her. Its all down to patience and hard work getting her recall right but she will do it, I know she will and O we have so much fun together. Once again thanks for your help everyone here is so so kind
Tess is doing really well by the sound of it! I do like how you are incorporating games into recall training. Just adding @snowbunny's point around a trained response to a recall whistle. This is when the dog hears the recall whistle and literally whips around towards you. The "trained response" is the automatic response where the dog doesn't need to think about how to react, the cue is then paired with this whiplash automatic response. This can differ from a verbal recall if you want, where a the verbal cue just means "come back to me". An example of already "trained" response your pup may have would be if you feed your dog in the same spot each day, and you mention the word "tea- time!" The response is automatic, dog races to feeding station You can if you want to, add the recall whistle at tea-time to pair this positive association. Using the recall around the house, and garden is useful as you are not recalling away from anything, but towards something that is really positive. A great game which you can play to help develop and strengthen a trained response to the recall whistle is a game of "ping pong recall". First find a bit of quiet space, no distractions. Have to hand large high-value treats, hunks of roast chicken for example, or any really tasty treats that are easy for your dog to find on the ground. Then throw a treat about 6 feet to your left, puppy runs to the treat and eats it. The instant puppy looks up and at YOU...use your recall whistle and throw a treat 6 feet to your right side, puppy runs to your right, eats treat and looks up...rinse and repeat. I usually have 8 pieces in my hand and use this as a great way to start a training session. There is a video on this technique I will try and dig it out for you later In the meantime, it would be worth catching up with snowbunny's blog with little Luna where the process of using LAT with a puppy is beautifully documented. https://thislittledoggy.com/2017/02/23/impulse-control-ignoring-people/
O wow so much help from everyone on the forum. Thanks Beanwood and to everyone else for your help yep will look at Snowbunny's blog. I am getting so much help I reckon little Tess will be the best trained dog in Northumberland. Haaaa who says you can't train a patterdale. I think so
Sorry, Len, that was a bit dickish of me to leave it as LAT without an explanation; my excuse is I was running out the door to an agility class and hoped someone else would fill in the gaps, which they have done marvellously! Yes, LAT is Look At That which is often used with aggressive or fearful dogs, but is just as useful for dogs who are excited by something. I have used it extensively with all three of my dogs, for fearfulness, fear aggression and excitability. The link Kate shared above has a little video that shows me using it with my over-sociable puppy who would want to rush up to everyone. She still gets excited by other dogs (she’s now one year) but will generally wait to be told to “go play”, which she sometimes is and sometimes not. It’s a hugely powerful technique. I also agree with using Ping-Pong recall which is brilliant fun for you both and really helps to reinforce the whistle cue.
No that's fine snowbunny its just great that you and others are helping me so much. My little girl gets excited about wanting to play with other dogs so LAT is what is needed. I watched your video and have saved the page so I can watch it as and when. Tess is such a sweet natured little girl and although I have had dogs before she is really the first I have really had time to train properly. The others have been inherited and much much older and now I am retired have the time to train.
