Hi, I have a 7 month old male choc Lab. Today he was naughty and I tried to put him out in yard, first when I told him out, he ran from me and when I tried to grab his collar to take him out. He curled his lips up baring his teeth at me and growling, I told him NO and as I tried to get hold of him he tried to bite me, he caught my wrist and broke the skin a little. I had to the restrain him holding onto his collar with one hand and trying to keep his teeth away with other hand. After restraining him for a minute and firmly telling him no, he quietness down and was put in yard as originally planned. He has reacted like this once before when my daughter has tried to hold him by his collar. He is not usually aggressive, he's usually a big daft lump. I've no idea why he's started behaving this way. I've had him since he was 8 weeks old and have had no real problems with him. I don't want my dog to become aggressive. He is a lovely boy and usually so daft. He hasn't yet been castrated as I didn't want him done at too young as I heard it can have a negative affect on his health. Does castration help with aggression or is it just a case of his hormones everywhere and he just needs to know who's boss. Thanks for any advice.
Re: Aggression Hello and welcome . Most aggression shown in a pup of his age isnt really aggression but fear, its a natural reaction , most dogs have the fight or flight instinct and when " trapped " the flight option isnt possible so its the fight option that kicks in . Labradors are often very senstive dogs, they hate to feel threatened , my own two year old Lad would go to pieces if I were to create fear , he doesnt even like raised voices . You say that once you had restrained him for a minute, he calmed down ? Was this by holding him ? I`m afraid that I dont go with the theory of showing a dog who is boss , its really an outdated method of training a dog , much better to go with rewarding good behaviour . If you have a look around this forum, you will find many articles which will help with good positive training methods , I hope they help you . I`m sorry if I sound critical , I dont wish to be, but as I said , Labradors can be so senstive and its so easy to compromise their lovely natures by coming down too hard on them , hope you find some help with the articles on here, they make much sense
Re: Aggression Hi, I have just had Otis castrated at six months. I felt quite informed about making this decision, but I know there is a lot of different advice out there about when or if to have it done. He was becoming quite frisky and with this behaviour he showed a bit, but not much agression. I decided to get him castrated at six months, as I beleive it was kinder to do it earlier as it is easier to do the operation, I was told this by my vet, and another labrador owner. Otis got through the op, fine, and he isnt agressive now, but it does take a couple of months for the hormones to disappear completely ive been told. MaggieX
Re: Aggression Hi Thanks for the replies. When I was restraining him I held his collar with one hand and my other hand was simply at the side of his head so he couldn't turn to bite me. I don't want to use any aggressive methods with him as I don't want him to be good out of fear. He is a sensitive little chap, he was scared of water and the dark but with plenty of reassurance he is fine with them now(almost). Usually a firm NO and a look is enough for him to realise his behaviour isn't acceptable. When he has what I call a mad 10 mins racing round like a loon and jumping up and nipping, telling him no and turning my back and ignoring him seemed to work but today he seemed different, actually scared me for a minute, he is big for 7 months and very strong. I just don't won't this what happened today and become a problem. I will speak to my vet about castration and see what he advises, Jake is definitely frisky, every day multiple times a day he gets frisky with me. I just want to do what's best for him, he's my lovely boy and is such a character. His behaviour in general is good, still find plenty of things chewed etc but on the whole he is a good boy.
Re: Aggression Hi Sue, Jake sounds like a lovely boy and I am sure that this will clear itself up. However, I have to say I disagree with Kate about this (most unusually, as she and I are on the same page about almost everything! ). Biting in a big 7 month old dog is an absolute no-no. If it happened with me, and my dog bit me or anyone else and broke the skin, he would know, with no doubt in his mind, that he should never, ever do that again. This doesn't mean you need to use physical force - a really firm NO!!!! and a shake of the scruff should show him that you really, really don't like it. He isn't a tiny puppy anymore, but a strong lad. Imagine if your daughter had a friend around, who took hold of his collar and he snarled and broke the skin with that child... That said, I'm sure it's not aggression. He just didn't want to go out into the yard, and was trying it on a bit...
Re: Aggression Owning a very boisterous and unruly 20 month old Choccie lad, I had to learn very quickly how to manage his tearing around, jumping and biting. I must confess that before I had him, I was one of the "ol fashioned" handlers and would use physical restraint. :-[ I quickly found that this made things worse by upsetting him (and my other Lab x Ruby) and he would simply run away from me and by the time I caught him the initial situation was gone and forgotten about (by him). There a lot of articles in this forum on distraction methods and videos on “kikopup” Youtube about distraction and boisterous behaviour interruption techniques that I have learnt and now use. Good luck and I cannot comment on castration for Finley as he was done before I had him and I believe quite young. He has never shown any signs of aggression even when I did loose it with him at the start. :-[ In the past I have had my other boys done and it stopped one being aggressive, but the other, like Finley was not aggressive before hand. I agree with the posts, it didn’t sound like real aggression, just stroppy unwanted behaviour. : When you stroke and talk to him, hold onto his collar gently, just to make sure it is nothing else and get him used to being held again without you being angry with him. ;D
Re: Aggression Hello and welcome Sue from me and my Choc 8 month old boy Charlie. I wonder whether there is more than one thing going on - my boy is not happy with people grabbing his collar, and certainly not being led anywhere by his collar (his just looks miserable about it). He hates collars, really. But he has to be ok with this, as there are all sorts of reasons why i might need to grab at his collar quickly and need him not to pull away. So we are associating him having his collar grabbed a little roughly with a chicken reward. It's getting better. So maybe you have to work on your boy being ok with similar? Then the biting, which doesn't sound good. He obviously must not bite regardless of what horrible thing happens (being stood on or someone harming him by accident for example). I'm not sure what to suggest in a 7 month old dog, I think this is about his bite inhibition if he bit you because he was startled or fearful - there are some useful articles around about this. I'm not sure castration sounds a solution in the scenario you describe (but might be lots of other reasons to have it done though). Hope helpful thoughts, at least!
Re: Aggression Thanks for all your replies guys. I don't think that the issue Jake had was with his collar being grabbed, he is definitely used to that, I think his issue was with being put out, he can be quite stubborn when it suits him. I'm still going to speak to my vet about castration and see when he thinks it's best to be done.
Re: Aggression Hi Sue, and welcome You have obviously had a worrying experience. First I'd like to say that nipping is quite common in puppies this age, it shouldn't be, but it is. And it is usually associated with overexcitement, fear, or frustration. It can be a sign that the dog has a less than perfect temperament, but if dealt with correctly, it is usually not a reflection of the dog that he will become. It is a good thing that your dog growled. Growling is your dog's warning signal, it tells you he may bite. The vast majority of young dogs only growl in play or, when they are threatened. Your dog was not playing so it is almost certain that he felt threatened, even if you are not aware of what triggered this. The problem with using punishment in this situation is that it tends to disrupt the warning process, and the next time the dog feels threatened, he may bite without warning. Punishment makes the dog more afraid, not less, and though it may inhibit him from biting you in the future, it may not have the same effect if someone else threatens him. It can be a complex issue It sounds like there was some conflict going on before the nipping and your dog was probably already hyped up before you caught hold of his collar. If you had reprimanded him, he may well have felt threatened. Castration has a range of effects, and is rarely necessary at this young age. Early castration may be associated with health issues. You can read up more about it here. If your dog is a bit nervous or sensitive, castrating him could make that worse, as testosterone is a confidence building hormone. So you need to be a bit careful. Your dog may well be experiencing a mixture of fear, boisterousness, and overexcitement Nowadays, as it is recognised that the vast majority of aggression in dogs is caused by fear or anxiety. The convention is to treat most aggression by removing the dog's fear. In other words by building up his confidence. The boisterous behaviour and disobedience is best dealt with by positive reinforcement training, i.e. training the dog to go outdoors on command, rather than forcibly taking him there, and the excitable nipping that is common in playful youngsters is best dealt with by calming techniques (stopping play, using a low calm voice, time out etc). A houseline (short trailing line attached to the dog's collar) can be a useful interim technique to help you manage a boisterous dog until you have trained him to respond to your commands. And it is a good idea to avoid all 'physical' play with a dog that is getting himself wound up around people, for whatever reason. Dogs that are stubborn respond very well to reward based training. They are motivated by what pleases them, and that it is usually not too far from your fridge.
Re: Aggression Hi Pippa I've had a phone consult with my vet, he is of the opinion that if I have Jake castrated that it won't automatically change any of his behaviour and may not see any real benefit from it at all, however he also said that because he is a sensitive little chap that it may do more harm than good to his confidence levels, just as you had stated. He advised that it was more of a personal choice and would be happy to go ahead when I feel the time is right. Thinking about how things happened yesterday, Jake probably was feeling a little threatened as I had reprimanded him and I probably didn't make the right decision in grabbing at his collar. Normally when Jake has been naughty a firm no and a look is enough for him to know I'm not best pleased with him. He is still only young and don't want him to learn through fear, I don't believe smacking is the answer and is not something I would resort to in order for him to behave. He is a quick learner, stubborn sometimes but when training using a clicker & treats etc you have his undivided attention. I think for now I will leave the castration a little while and see how Jake progresses. I recently bought "Total Recall" and have found some really useful tips especially for Jakes recall, it didn't matter what I did he just wouldn't come back once he had seen another dog/person, after using some of the techniques I would say it has improved 90%, no more chasing after him on walks. Still need to work with him with pulling on his lead, I was thinking of buying a harness, what are your thoughts on harnesses, is there a particular type I should look for ?
Re: Aggression Hi Sue, glad you have been able to chat to your vet, and that you are finding the book helpful I only use a body harness in very limited circumstances, e.g. when I absolutely have to have a dog that has not yet been trained to walk to heel on a lead (as in taking pups into town for socialisation) and when using a training lead. The one I use is the easy walk harness with a front attachment. It is a bit of a fiddle initially to fit it to the dog as it adjusts in several ways, but it is claimed that a front fastening harness is less likely to cause a dog to pull than one that attaches on the dog's back. Pippa
Re: Aggression Hi Sue , so pleased that you have asked advice from your Vet . This really is a brilliant forum , lots of good advice and excellent articles I`m sure that your lovely boy will really benefit from some training exercises , most Labs do and as a puppy, he will soak it up, good luck
Re: Aggression Well, chiming in here from someone who has had some biting from my dog, whom we got as a rescue a few months ago. Our dog definitely had collar issues, and a quick grab at the collar would likely result in him snapping at you. Click and treat for collar de-sensitivity has definitely helped in that. As Julie said, some dogs are very wary of being dragged by the collar. We've had a few biting issues here, which now seem to be focussed on resource guarding. It is worrying, and definitely something to address. I have found some good ideas on the Kikopup YouTube site which uses clicker training. Hope this helps and that you get it all sorted out soon!
