Hi all..Penny is 9 months now and generally energetic but different to crazy croco puppy. She is a very loving dog that adores my daughter and wants to sit on the sofa with us ( i know ..a habit thats hard too break). Anyway the thing is my daughter was rubbing Penny's face and head and generally looking straight at her basically eye level when Penny suddenly and out of the blue snapped at my daughters face and her upper gum was bleeding. We are upset and especially my daughter as she got a fright and has cried since it happened. Btw my daughter is 17 so not a small child. I dont know what to make of it as Penny has never shown any signs of aggression. Penny knew she had done something she shouldn't have and was very subdued with her head and eyes down which would never happen as i have always joked about when she does stuff she shouldn't with a couldn't care less attitude. Its a rubbish feeling because we love her and dont know if i should worry or it's a one off or was it meant to say " i dont like this". The thing is she is still a pup so aggression is not in her nature.
I think it was very much Penny saying 'I don't like this' and using a snap to get your daughter to move. Dogs really do not like a full on look/stare particularly at eye level which they can interpret as aggressive it's why dogs approach each other at an angle by choice. I would suspect that Penny has felt uncomfortable in similar encounters and her discomfort has been missed which has led to the escalation
You say she wants to sit on the sofa with you? Is this something you don’t want and try to prevent actively ? She might be resource guarding that spot and in that case the stare would have been even more threatening than if it happened in a more neutral spot. I also don’t think she knew she did something wrong. She was more likely reacting to the energy of your responses to the warning shot. I presume your daughter backed away immediately and there was no punishment given.
Aah @Jacqueline Mckendrick so sorry this has happened to your daughter. What a shock for her and you. I really don’t know why but I suspect your daughter just got too close to Penny - in her space and as you and @Jojo83 say her way of saying she didn’t like it. Penny sounds a really lovely dog from the way you have always posted about her. I hope your daughter is ok.
Thanks for replies. It just felt so unreal. Penny loves nothing more than us all crammed together on sofa and this is completely my doing. I dont have a problem with that i just mentioned that to give some idea as how it looked. Penny truely has a lovely nature but in true lab style she will demand attention. At 9 months she is still a pup but doesnt act as mad as she did in the mental crazy croco pup times. We are dealing with a 26kg dog now who thinks she is a tea cup pup . I dont believe it was guarding or my daughter staring at her.. it all happened too quickly.
I'm with Jojo, as a child I was always taught not to stare dogs in the eye, especially those that were strangers to me, as it can be intimidating to them. If you watch dogs meeting each other it is what they do to one another, whether it's a threat or not. The whole idea of eye contact in +R training was new to me. Penny is still very young, the puppy in adult body is a challenging time. Of course, if you are anxious about this, and I can imagine it was upsetting, perhaps it would be wise to consult a behaviourist. You've always spoken so warmly and positively about Penny, she sounds and looks really lovely.
Maybe it was undirected frustrastion....with cats they say, they maybe upset about another cat or whatever outside the window, but then direct it at us the owners. I know that's for cats....but.. Maybe something was bothering her even physically?
It is impossible to say without seeing it, but I can tell you that Squidge can do this at times and it's entirely in fun. It's normally when we've been cuddling or playing. She gets this mischievous look in her eye, stares at me and then, bam, will lunge up at me. It's absolutely playful, although if she gets it wrong, it can hurt. I can avoid it by breaking off when she gets that look. She only does it with me, so it's not something that bothers me. I wouldn't want to dismiss it as the same thing because it's not possible to say it is, but snapping isn't always something caused by negative feelings. In fact, Willow does a similar thing when we're having a bonding play/grooming session. She has the control to never get it wrong, but, again, it's definitely all in play.
It sounds like Penny just didn’t like having her head rubbed and having your daughter looking at her at eye level. It doesn’t sound like resource guarding to me. My girl doesn’t like her head being rubbed too much and will move away when people do it. Maybe Penny couldnt move, hence why she snapped. I would get your daughter to do some training with Penny to do something positive together.
Well, it is worth taking into account all the above, but also if you think it was out of character, it could simply have been an accident. When my lot want to instigate play, they can be quite provocative. Having four labs I see this quite a lot, and the response varies. Bear stares hard, eyes front at Bramble, tailing wagging hard trying to encourage her to play. He hasn't (being a foster) got the honed social skills that the others have, and does fall foul of her quick reflexes! She will sometimes "explode" at him, and it does look quite intimidating. For sure if I was in the way I would end up with a bruise, and/or possibly some blood loss! When dogs get to adolescence, they do lack a bit of restraint, so it is worth just taking things a bit easy with her just in case.
I have the same experience with Aspen doing the lunge as @snowbunny explained. Aspen will give you a certain look and it just means it means that he is about to lunge. He does it completely out of fun and being playful pup. Not to dismiss what happened with your pup and daughter, because I know if Aspen did that to anyone who doesn't understand his behavior would be scared. I am sorry this happened to your daughter though!
Same with Snowie as @snowbunny and @alschwahn describe with their dogs: he’ll get this glint in his eye when we’re playing up close and then I just know he’s about to bang my face with his snout. I’m terrified I’ll chip a tooth, but I’m not afraid he’s being aggressive at all - he’d never do a thing to me. So when he gets the glint, I laugh at him and tell him he’s a very naughty boy (in a tone that no one would ever believe means anything other than: you’re the loveliest dog in the world!) and I keep my face well away from his hard teeth while he’s busy wagging his tail. Snowie and I gaze into each others’ eyes all the time. I can’t imagine not making eye contact with him - it’s such an important part of our connection and communication, particularly smiley eyes. In fact, I trained him that before he can eat his dinner, he’s to make eye contact with me when I say “look at me” - so important a behavior it is to me. I hope your daughter is okay and that she’s feeling she can trust your pup again.
Hmmm... I get this between Poppy and Merlin sometimes, when Poppy is on the couch next to me. If Merlin gets too in her face, she will stare hard at him, and if he doesn't get the message, she'll escalate it to a quite sharp snap. She's never actually bitten him, but she has bopped him with her mouth open. Without having seen what was going on at your house, obviously, it sounds to me like Penny was uncomfortable with your daughter being so close, and told her so in a rather unfortunate way.
Thanks for all your great responses. I am 100% sure there was no aggression. I think because she made contact with my daughter hard on her mouth causing her gum to bleed it just looked awful. My daughter adores Penny and has made no difference today to how she interacts with her. There was definately no hard staring or eye contact and like MF has said about making eye contact i couldnt imagine not doing it. Its all good now and we are putting it down to over exhuberance as usual. Like all lab pups they are a challenge but we feel a lot of the crazy behaviour has passed ..still bonkers at times but its all about her wanting to be with us and show us we are her world. Its definately a learning curve
