9 month old puppy humping other dogs- when to neuter?

Discussion in 'Labrador Puppies' started by Coa, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. Johnny Walker

    Johnny Walker Registered Users

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    Being from Canada where not neutering is relatively unheard of, ive got everyone and everything going against me. Including two vets, my wife, mother and all my wife’s friends. Because of this I’ve had to do a lot off research to justify my decision ( which I still haven’t made yet ). I considered it briefly but only as a last resort to keep the dog at that time. I compare it to inducing labour. Why fight nature for convenience. I mean, I get performing the procedure if it’s medically necessary but not for convenience or because Bob Barker told us to for 30 years on the Price is Right. I don’t think enough research has been properly done yet but I think there are enough studies that prove neutering your dog can cause issues, more so than the claims that say it help this or helps that. There are better ways to deal with embarrassing moments and hurt pride than chopping his bits off in hopes he will stop the undesired behaviour. I might get hung for my next statement but it almost seems as though people perform the procedure out of laziness and convenience to the owner, not to improve the quality of the dogs life. There is absolutely no reason for me to neuter my dog, and if the evidence is correct I’d be doing him a disservice by increasing his odds for hip and joint problems as well as causing more serious cancers elsewhere in his body.
     
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  2. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    I'm not afraid to admit this is a large part of the reason that I had Willow spayed before her first season - it was convenient. At the time I thought I was making the right decision, now I'm less sure. I still can't say what that right decision is, and it may be different for me than for any other individual owner. I haven't made a decision with either Shadow or Luna. Shadow is not neutered and I certainly have no plans to, but am using suprelorin at present and am hoping I can use it to train through some of his reactivity issues. Luna is coming up to her second season and, again, I have no plans to spay her. I won't say that I won't because it depends on so many factors but, feeling sad that I rushed into it with Willow, I am determined that if I do make that decision with Shadow or Luna at any point, it will be entirely for the right reasons. I can't say convenience won't play a part at all, but it won't be a large factor.
     
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  3. Karen

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    I think convenience is the main reason people have their female dogs neutered - as there is no denying that there is more work and inconvenience involved with a bitch who has seasons twice a year. That said, it's not really difficult to deal with - we did it for five years with Poppy, before having her spayed for health reasons.

    With male dogs, I really think the reason most people have them neutered is down to peer pressure - as @Johnny Walker says, be that pressure from vets, or family or friends, or from daycare or kennels. True health benefits are minimal, and in fact you are likely to be doing much more harm than good.
     
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  4. Inky lab

    Inky lab Registered Users

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    @Boogie
    Just wondered what Cowboy magic is?
     
  5. Moosenme

    Moosenme Registered Users

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    I am probably going to go against the vets advice on this, and not neuter, at least not at this time. My Golden had alot of troubles with his legs, and realizing that neutering, especially at a young age, can contribute to that (not something the vets here tell you, btw) is concerning. I really think the males, at least, that are left intact don't seem to put the weight on as the intact ones do. I did have my chihuahua spayed, but again, she was a rescue and it was required. I had a male poodle years ago that I never had neutered, but he did mark inside. Only the Christmas tree, but still :O. Oh, it's male dog smell, not yeast that I am smelling. My sons lab comes and marks everything in my yard, and I do mean everything and oh the smell....And he's a very healthy dog. And wondering too...what is Cowboy Magic?
     
  6. Snowy

    Snowy Registered Users

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    Do you mean weight gain through increased muscle mass, or weight gain as in "getting fat"?

    "Getting fat" weight gain is simply a result of energy intake being higher than energy used. If the owner controls energy intake responsibly, there shouldn't be any reason* for weight gain, whether the dog is entire or not.

    * There may of course be the 0,01% exception dog that suffers from some medical condition.
     
  7. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    Cowboy Magic is a dry shampoo. It’s a magic foamy thing that gets rid of fox pop smell without having to shower your dog twenty-three times :D
     
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  8. Cath

    Cath Registered Users

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    Fred has still got all his tackle and doesn't hump anyone or anything.
     
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  9. Karen

    Karen Registered Users

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    With bitches at least, being spayed definitely means there is more chance of putting on weight. The reproductive cycle uses energy, so an entire female requires more calories. When we had Poppy spayed at five years old, the surgeon told us to reduce her food by 25% accordingly.

    Ladies of a certain age,this sadly is why women tend to put on weight after the menopause- your body simply needs fewer calories as it no longer has to fuel a reproductive cycle...
     
  10. Karen

    Karen Registered Users

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    You can (and should) teach your male dog where it is ok to pee, and where not. I have an area down the bottom of my garden where both dogs go to pee. I certainly don't want them relieving themselves or marking all over my lawn, plants and vegetables!!
     
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  11. Boogie

    Boogie Supporting Member Forum Supporter

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  12. Snowy

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    You quote my post, but I can't work out whether you are agreeing with it or not :D

    Either way, my point is that weight gain only happens when "energy in" > "energy used".

    It's good to be aware of the reasons why energy requirements change over a lifetime, but those reasons are not, in themselves, a reason for weight gain. Too much "energy in" is.
     
  13. Karen

    Karen Registered Users

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    Agreeing with you!! But just adding why a neutered animal needs careful monitoring, as regards the amount of food given.
     
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  14. Snowy

    Snowy Registered Users

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    Thanks for clarifying.
     
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  15. skellingtonthe3rd

    skellingtonthe3rd Registered Users

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    I would visit the Endless Mountain Labs website since they say it a lot better than I can, but basically some bones are done growing at 8-10 months (growth plates are done that is) and some bones are done growing at 12-14 months. Neutering at a younger age can cause an imbalance with the dog's bone structure, and cause stress on major ligaments.
    *If I am wrong, feel free to correct!*
     
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  16. Snowshoe

    Snowshoe Registered Users

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    I am in Canada too and notice more and more Vets do support later age neuter. I have three neighbours who have been told to wait till two years. My own Vet(s) all support me not neutering Oban at all. He is 10 now and has never humped anything other than the teddy bear (get Poppa, you tell him, good boy) we gave him when he was 10 weeks old. Oban has learned he may pee outside to his heart's content. Sometimes it is marking, sometimes he just has to pee. It doesn't smell bad unless I am right down into it, weeding or something. Certainly not a smell I notice just standing in my yard. Maybe you have a particularly good sniffer yourself and maybe this is something that should be mentionned to to the Vet, the strong smell. One time Oban's urine did have a strong smell it turned out he had a bladder infection.
     
  17. SimoneB

    SimoneB Registered Users

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    I just read the article on neutering on the Endless Mountain Labs website and it did give me food for thought. We had our last Lab neutered at 7 months when we discovered he already had hip dysplasia. Looking at the photo on the Endless site of the different way dogs can look if they are neutered before fully developed I can see that ours was more like the shape of the neutered one, but in all honestly I find that one more attractive; the other looks gargantuan to me. I wonder whether we are just mainly used to seeing neutered dogs. Very few are left intact here. How do others manage with boarding if they want to go away on holiday? Most places will not take entire males, including our regular place. I cannot imagine not being able to go away without the dog for the next dozen years or more. We do plan take him away with us but need to be able to go places without him sometimes, too.
     
  18. Bettie

    Bettie Registered Users

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    My puppy is now 5 months. The vet originally wanted him neutered at 6 months, despite the fact that she commented that the testosterone helps with the back plates developing properly. The breeder recommended 10-12 months. The vet said that if we were going to wait as long as 10, then we might as well go whole hog and do it at 12. He humps his bed now whenever he is bored, but will stop for a treat or the hairy-eyeball. But ever time we go in she subtly asks again if we are not really to neuter him, and then we say 10-12 months and then she backs off.
     
  19. Bettie

    Bettie Registered Users

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    The only reason(unless you are breeding him) to not neuter is for plate development. And that's finished at 10-12 months. Then he should be neutered.
     
  20. snowbunny

    snowbunny Registered Users

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    That is a very sweeping statement and I completely disagree. What are the reasons TO neuter? With male dogs, the evidence is pretty clear; the benefits are: 1) in reducing sexualised behaviours, which most dogs don't actually have in strong enough measure that they cannot be trained around (see how the majority of gundogs are entire and still manage to do a day's work) and 2) in preventing testicular cancer, which can be easily treated by gonadectomy as and when necessary. In fact, in Labradors, it has been shown that neutering (at any age) slightly increases the risk of cancer overall: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0102241&type=printable
    Additionally, neutered dogs are more likely to suffer from dementia later in life: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5a4f/62a032465b728039710d2e22f87b2e891fc3.pdf
    and immune disorders: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-016-0911-5

    I am not breeding my boy because it would be irresponsible to do so - he does not have the right temperament to pass on to puppies. But I also have no plans to neuter because there is currently no need to. He doesn't have over-sexualised behaviours. He isn't able to roam and impregnate bitches by accident because I am responsible in my ownership of him. I will not rule out neutering at some point if I deem it to be necessary, but that is absolutely not just because I'm not breeding from him. Reducing a dog's testosterone has the potential to make him more anxious and this can lead to aggressive tendencies. The saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems very fitting here.

    I'm certainly not of the opinion that there is never a reason to neuter, as it varies very much on people's personal circumstances, but to say that all non-breeding dogs should be neutered is potentially dangerous advice. You might consider that blanket neutering is actually illegal in some very progressive countries. The Scandinavian countries have incredibly low neutering rates and yet don't have over-population problems. Why? Responsible dog ownership.
     
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