just wanted some sane advice really; Holly has never had tummy trouble, and late in July she suddenly had an episode of really squirty poo, which was more frequent than usual (as in whining in the middle of the night to be let out, running o the garden then squirting out in an arc..). This happened once, then appeared to resolve over the following 24 hours, so I thought maybe she’d eaten something that disagreed with her. About ten days later she started vomiting and was quite unwell so went into vet for IV fluid and antibiotics. Vet suspected giardia as cause of diarrhoea and gave 5 day course of metronidazole and three days of panacur. After this she seemed ok and had normal poo for five days, then reverted to squirts again. We returned to vet (saw different vet) who thought maybe campylobacter. He gave her a 20 day course of anti biotics. Her poo became formed but still very squishy; I called to see if I should be giving her probiotics and was told I needed to do a stool sample (she was still on metronidazole) So I collected poo from every time she went from Fri to sun and gave it to vet Monday 3rd. Once she came off metronidazole her poo returned to being absolutely plumb normal. Until last night, when I was up letting her out at midnight, 4am and 6am for rapid bum squirts. She is fine in herself, not unwell. Very bouncy in fact. I tried to call vet for advice today but no one called back. Basically i’m now wondering; was it actually giardia all along and the panacur course was too short to clear it.. (being 3 days only) or campylobacter that can survive 20 days of metronidazole!! Or something else.. i don’t think it is related to her food because if her food was causing it then she wouldn’t have totally normal poo in between (she’s on Orijen) and she’s in really excellent condition so I doubt it’s malabsorption / inflammatory bowel disease.. Any way, I now have a jar full of last nights squirts to take for culture.. collected at 4am last culture came back absolutely clear. Sorry for the length of this post, Any thoughts anyone?
Right, well... I happen to have been forced to learn a lot about this kind of thing, because my (now sadly deceased) Weimaraner suffered from it pretty much throughout her life. Disclaimer: I AM NOT A VET. But I am a very experienced owner who has dealt with giardia and related stuff through the 13 years of my WEim's existence and I do do my research....(!). Firstly, learn about giardia and how it 'works' - this is one of the best accounts I know of, from a beagle breeder in the US: https://www.beaglesunlimited.com/health/giardiasis-diagnosis-treatment-and-prevention (Panacur is Safeguard - both are brand names for fenbendazole.) Firstly 5 days of metronidazole for your initial course sounds very short. If the dosage doesn't go on long enough, it will return. The dose should be AT LEAST 7 days, but preferably 10 days long. (I have personal experience of it only being 5 days and then returning, with our Weim.) You don't say how long your second course of it was... The dosage needs to be high enough to be effective. My Weim was 24kg and was on 500mg twice a day. At one point in her life, we saw a young and inexperienced vet who put her on 200mg, twice a day. This did not work - as soon as we stopped it, it came back. We returned and got the usual 500mg from our regular vet - and it stayed away. Sometimes vets are scared with metronidazole because higher dosages have been linked to neuro- side effects - however these are very rare. You don't say what dosage you're on... Whilst Panacur/fenbendazole is supposed to be effective against giardia, we never had any luck with it and we always needed metronidazole. BUT I do know other people who have been successful with it. 3 days is quite short, for length of treatment - I know that's what the Panacur packet says, but 5 days is a better length of treatment at the giardia dosage, according to our vet. The current 'best practice' thinking, is to do 5 days of Panacur with 10 days of Metronidazole - a kind of double-whammy approach. It can sometimes take multiple rounds to nuke it. Giardia does encyst in the intestines. Which means it hides out there, resistant to treatment and can then reoccur. Soon after, or like a year later when your dog's immune system is under stress. Giardia does not show up in every stool sample. In fact, we gave up doing stool samples because there was never anything found in them, they are expensive, and we knew metronidazole would work. Metronidazole does have other effects: It is also an anti-inflammatory, for example, so it helps take down inflammation in the intestines which can cause blood in the stools and runny poops by itself. That is part of the way metronidazole works. This means it can be effective even if the problem is not giardia, but is more of an inflammatory bowel condition. One vet we saw was convinced that our Weim did not have giardia but had an inflammatory bowel condition and - had she been younger - would have recommended a GA and a bowel biopsy. However, we knew it was giardia (or at least - something contagious!) - because she gave it to our other dogs on at least 2 occasions!!! It's important to focus on also supporting her own body against this, and not just on medications from the vet. I would recommend: Slippery Elm, which covers the lining of the intestines and protects them. Pumpkin powder, which adds bulk and fibre to the stool. Probiotics - like FortiFlora, throughout giving antibiotics and for at least a few weeks afterwards - since these meds will have nuked the good bacteria and the whole microbiome, so you need to populate it with good bacteria. And Kaogel/kaolin for dogs, which will help bind the poop as well. Dogs can reinfect themselves with giardia and it can survive in wet conditions for a long time, so it's important to clean up everywhere she has been toileting. Typically bleach is best - but that may only be possible if she has been toileting on a hard surface. If she has been going on grass or ground, it is really hard to disinfect that adequately - I would literally pick up so much grass or ground that there is a little hole left(!!) (much to my husband's disapproval!!). If you have hot dry weather, that usually kills it faster. Campylobacter usually affects little puppies OR in adult dogs just causes slightly runny/soft poops at regular times - it would be unusual for an adult healthy dog to have vomiting as well and to be generally unwell with it. Giardia can totally cause that - we had literally bloody vomiting and bloody stools, mucous, straining for little drops over and over, and asking to go out every 15mins, making sleep impossible... Good luck, I hope that helps!
Wow, thanks for such a detailed response. The second course of Metronidazole was for twenty days and at quite a high dosage and seemed to have done the trick.. until Wed night! This time she had over night squirts and then it recovered to normal poo over the course of the following day. I must admit my gut (no pun intended) feeling is that it is giardia but the vet was pretty convinced by the negative ELISA stool test.. still she said we could try a seven day course of Panacur to see if that does it. Poo is back to totally normal and dog is at full power .. vet wants a blood sample on Monday to check vit D levels .. something to do with malabsorption, but honestly she is a thriving dog, so I don’t think she had that. I’m not a vet though, so we’ll do the bloods and give the panacur a longer try.. I have read that metronidazole doesn’t get rid of giardia as well as panacur.. depending on exact strain of giardia, so maybe this round of panacur will sort it. My dog never normally does any toilet activity in our garden, so Sod’s law that she had squirts on the grass. We cleaned it up as well as possible .. maybe have to do a few rounds of panacur. Thanks so much for replying, I really appreciate it x
I adopted a Male lab not fix. He is about 12. I think. He has develop colitis. Our vet is giving him Tylen pills. I am feeding him rice and chicken . Please help what else can I do? Oh I also give in a little of the Royal Canin Castro intestinal low fat dry food. But the royal canin is given to him in small amounts. Thank you so much Ana
