Hi The trainer/behaviourist I've been working with has recommended putting my 5 month old pup on SSRIs for her fear of noises (primarily noise) Her fears are becoming more generalized over time and her recovery from them takes a long time; she is pretty extreme. As an aside, she loves other dogs and does function much better when one is present. It would have been ideal to already have a well-adjusted dog in the family.... She loves people too, but is fearful when there is a large group approaching. I am visiting the vet this week for a thorough check over and blood work and to discuss the meds. I would love to hear from anyone who has experience with this.
I’d give it more time. My guy is really nervous around strangers and scared to death camping of the noises. I do a lot of positive reinforcement with him and he has gotten more than 70% better now that he is 2.5 years old. Someone once told me to be an advocate for my dog and if he looks scared don’t be embarrassed to tell someone they can’t pet him. I worked a lot on taking him to the dog park because he is so friendly towards strangers around other friendly dogs. We never had to teach him not to jump because he used to walk a huge circle around strangers. Now occasionally he just gets so excited he jumps on someone (hard to discipline him when he was the opposite a year ago). There is this stigma that labs are the most friendly dogs and just people pleasers and my guy DEFINITELY is with my husband and I but around certain strangers he just needs some space. I hope if I continue to work with him he will keep improving into the amazing dog my husband and I know and love.
I am not keen to go the drug route, and will talk more with the vet this week about it. I'm in a tricky situation with my pup. What I've learned is that in extreme cases of phobias where the dog starts to generalize the fears, drugs can be very useful, and sometimes necessary for a good outcome. Unfortunately in Poppy's case she is not progressing with the training and is now frequently too fearful to leave the house. The trainer suggests that the SSRIs can help along with the continued training. The fact that she is young and her brain is still developing will hopefully work in her favour.
Hi @LAS I 'can understand the reason for the medication. It is not possible to train a dog if it cannot focus and engage. But I don't see any proposal to undertake counter conditioning while the medicine keeps the dog below threshold. Nor do you mention any scheme to wean the dog off the medicine. Is counter conditioning part of the treatment regime? If not, then I would be concerned.
Right, the plan is to find the right drug/dose of medication and keep her on that until she's into her first year and wean her off at that point, presumably after doing well on it in conjunction with counter conditioning. There seems to be a real lack of published studies on the use of medications and would love to hear positive reports from anyone who has gone this route. I would love to hear of any success stories out there, it would be encouraging
Hmm, it's a difficult one. I would say that, at 5 months, she is very young and her brain is in a state of flux and change which will continue right through till the end of adolescence - just as it does in humans. I would be reluctant to give such a young pup (or child!) drugs if the dog's life can be made 'ok' in any other way and before trying everything else. And thirdly, if you are going to use drugs, I think you need to get a referral to a veterinary behaviourist - who will specialise in the use of such drugs - because there are many options, and really you need a vet who knows what they're doing, to be prescribing them and then monitoring the dog's response and adjusting things. Not just getting them from your regular vet. Can you give more information about the exact problems with noises she is experiencing and what exactly she is able to do/not do on a daily basis? I would definitely be implementing all the following (which you can google for more information Zylkene Adaptil diffuser in the house and Adaptil collar for out of the house (she will need to wear the collar all the time as it takes a while to heat up from body heat and get working) White noise machine in the house - if there are any issues with hearing noises in the house Thundershirt - worn on all walks or excursions from the house Arrange to work with a CBATI on her fears: https://grishastewart.com
Thanks Jo for this info. I appreciate all the input I can get on this. We did have the adaptil collar for her but not the diffuser. I can't say that the collar seemed to make any difference but I could revisit. I was considering the thundershirt for her but it was suggested to me that if she doesn't like being held tight that it may not be suitable for her? Not sure if that was correct advice. Overall Poppy is good in the house. However she is very sensitive and alert and definitely will react to noises inside but she recovers from these provided it is of short duration. The sound from our air filter in the main part of the house actually has a white noise effect which she may already benefit from. Poppy's issues have been primarily to do with being outside. Noises have been the biggest (but not sole) trigger for her. Typical bang type noises like gunshot but also whooshing sounds. Other triggers include some groups of people, usually a group larger than two persons. Changes in the environment too. If a truck is parked where she doesn't normally expect to see a truck for example. And sometimes I can't identify any trigger, it has to be something I can't hear or see or smell. Once triggered, she freezes and wants to escape. Very frantic, will pant if very bad. She is unresponsive to high value treats/food. Once safe back in the house she will most often refuse to leave the house for a full day. And sometimes be very wary even into the next day. I will look up the zylkene and the link. Without writing a novel that about sums it up.
Right.... With the various products around (at least, those with scientific research behind them), often they work best if used in combination with other things. It's like, any one thing by itself usually is not enough to make an appreciable difference - but multiple things, tried at once alongside each other, can together make enough of an impact. So it might be worth re-visiting the Adaptil collar again - since there is research behind that. If her issues are not with things in the house, then probably you don't need the diffuser although it wouldn't hurt. The Thundershirt - that's an example of something you need to try. You just need to try things and tick them off the list as being tried... You can always return it if you find it doesn't work! The first times you put it on, put it on whilst you are watching TV together - or whenever she is at her most relaxed. That way, she will hopefully associate it with that state of relaxation. You don't want to put it on for the first time and go out and she happens to encounter something scary and associates it with the Thundershirt... I do think that working with a CBATI would be really useful, because you need to be shown or taught how to help her learn that 'escape' is possible - this will lead to her feeling safer. For example, if you were my client (I'm a CBATI), I would have you working in and out of your house a lot - using BAT Leash Skills and a 5m long-line - so that the dog learns she can get away any time she wants to, from the scary situation. She has that choice. Choice and control leads to empowerment and confidence. And that defeats fear and anxiety. So, I would have you using a long-line and BAT Leash Skills and watching your dog for any sign of worry - then cueing a 'Let's Go' if necessary or just following her if she is able to take herself away, back inside. Allowing her to decide for herself (door open) if and when she would like to go back out again, each session. And so on. You can learn a lot more about BAT yourself if you would like, from Grisha's book or you can work with a CBATI. The other idea I had, is the Pet Acoustics calming collar: https://www.petacoustics.com/shop-dog-cat-horse-bird-baby/ultra-calmer This little device sits on the back of the dog's neck, between their ears - and plays quiet calm chords (dog calming music!). It can help to block out environmental noises as well as the sound itself being proven in research to be calming. You can turn the volume up and down.
Thanks for explaining about the CBATI. I'm interested in trying this approach and adding the other things in too. I am putting the drug route on hold for the time being. I need to do some more reading.... but I am feeling hopeful we will get somewhere with this. I'll update on how things go in the next while. Appreciate the advice.
Unfortunately there aren't any CBATI close by. I found two, but both were at least 1.5 hours away. I'll look into getting Grisha's book as a start.
Ok, so yes - I would stick to hanging out, just outside your house using BAT Leash Skills and taking her lead to run back inside to 'safety' whenever she wants to. Once she learns she is in control of returning to safety, her confidence will grow and she will naturally want to explore further away. Whilst hanging around outside, you are implementing and practising your BAT Leash skills - which are in Grisha's book. Grisha also has a great online course with lots of helpful videos which you can follow here (books can be hard when it comes to capturing complex physical things.... ) https://grishastewart.com/bat101/?s2-ssl=yes
I thought I'd update on Poppy's progress. She's 6 months now . It was a hard decision not to put her on the SSRIs - due to differing opinions from people, and my trainer who was advocating for it. I did not go the drug route in the end. And my trainer has ditched me, but I am feeling more confident now too about the right approach to take and I think Poppy picks up on the change. Am now following the advice with letting Poppy dictate leaving the garage/house to go outside, not pressuring her. She has more autonomy. Leaving the house door open for her to run back into was very helpful. Happily in the past few weeks she has been able to leave the house to get outside for her pees/poop. This was so encouraging and practical! It was depressing having to carry my scared dog out to do her thing. Our 'walks' are always on trails where she is on a long line with harness. This is mostly good but unpredictable. I'm getting better at reading her body language as well as environmental triggers but it is not perfect. She is pretty complicated and inconsistent (at least from my human perspective) in what will set her off. Often on walks she responds well to people, but then other times she will be totally scared. (Larger groups are always a problem) In these circumstances, I will give distance or move away as best I can. The tricker bit has been the environment - sounds, tree tops, wind, stillness, visual changes - something that wasn't there before type thing. At home in our yard she has improved so much in the past month. Now she can venture out and not be desperately scared by things. We live on a large rural lot and even the farm machines last week she was not too bad with. She did retreat to the house but not as desperately as before and she recovered in a reasonable amount of time. It has felt like a huge improvement being able to play ball outside on many occasions. Interestingly, she seems to feel more confident when our cat is outside, it seems to reassure her. There is a ways to go, and she is young of course, but I am feeling way more positive about everything. And now that the fears are becoming more manageable we are able to focus more on her basic training which is great.
That's great to hear. You might want to see if and where she will play, since play is a great way to help dogs feel confident. Ie - playing tug, playing with a tennis ball. Will she do this in the house with you? In the kitchen? In the yard? Outside the yard on the sidewalk? And so on. You might also be interested in this online course, starting June 1st: https://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/courses/13929 And then especially in this one the next session, starting August 1st: https://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com/index.php/courses/84
She does love playing in the house and garage especially - where she is most comfortable. Outside in our yard she likes it as well, but the play is often interrupted by things she sees or hears that bother her. But she is improving outside as she is relaxing a bit with some of the triggers. Thanks for the links to the online course, these sound interesting and I will check them out.
Cool, one way you can monitor progress is by seeing how long it takes for her to re-engage with play again, after one of these worrying interrupting things. Try to count in seconds from when she is worried until when she re-engages. Hopefully, over time, you will see the time reduce and reduce...
