Hi everyone Please can somebody help? So Mister Sooty has finally learned that barking before his walk doesn't get him out to the park, however, everything else has gone downhill while we have been teaching him that. I'm at my wits end To recap, our boy is about 20 months we think, was picked up as a stray in Ireland and came to us nearly 3 months ago from the Dogs Trust. He's a very strong, very energetic boy. So, here's the rub. When Emma takes him for a walk, he's now nice and quiet, and she gets him out of the house with minimal fuss. When I take him out for a walk, BEDLAM! He will stop barking when I ignore him and sit down, but all the time I'm on my feet, he's charging around bashing into stuff, knocking stuff over, trampling over anything in his way. It takes me AGES to get him out!!! Then on walks he's pretty well behaved, lots of running around chasing ball, running with other dogs, but comes back well when called, walks quite well on the lead. Not bad at all. Take him in the car, however, a different matter... He has to be in the boot behind a cage as otherwise he runs amok around the car - very dangerous - and he barks, and barks, and barks. And barks. And then barks some more. In fact, last night he barked all the way from Exeter to Budleigh Salterton, then barked for 15 minutes while I went to pick up an ebay purchase, was still barking as I walked back to the car, and barked all the way back over the common until I had enough and hollered at him to shut up, at which point he shut up till we got to the car park and I let him out to chase the bunnies for an hour. I've tried click and treat a few times, throwing a goody back for him as I drive, but it's not ideal for obvious reasons, and I just ran out of treats after the first 10 miles. He's costing us a fortune in treats!!! Doesn't seem right tho, that I have to get all macho shouty just to get a quiet life Then this morning I walked him down to work and tried to get some work done. A couple of hours barking later, the neighbors complained they couldn't hear themselves on the phone so in the end I had to pack up and take him home. A machine turns on, he barks. Someone comes into the workshop, he barks. I try and have a conversation with the boss, or in fact anyone, he barks. I leave him in the office to visit the firm 3 doors down for a minute, he lets himself out (yes, he can open doors) and chases after me across the car park. Every time it takes him 10 minutes to settle down, until the next trigger, and off we go again. This has been getting worse, now I can't cuddle Emsie, or give feebs a hug without him getting all shouty, and ignoring him doen't seem to be making any difference at all. When I leave the house though, he's fine, doesn't bark at all, just settles down on the floor or his bed for a sleep. If he doesn't hear me coming back, I often find him sound asleep when I come home, so he has no anxiety about being left behind. I get a boistrous greeting, but not over the top. Where on earth do I start :-\ ???
Re: Barking B4 walk sorted, but in car now worse and V BAD sep. anxiety. PLS HELP Poor you! The barking must be driving you batty. Since he is able to settle when you leave the house I would say that he does not have 'separation anxiety'. If he had separation anxiety when you came home your house would look like a bomb had gone off in it. The fact that you can leave the house and he is quiet and settles is a very good thing!!! (just trying to focus on one of the positives!). I think that he is just hyper alert, hugely excited by everything and has no self control. He probably has lived most of his life so far with no requirement for self control. Until now. It is also wonderful that your daughter can get home out of the house quietly for a work. You have obviously done a wonderful job there - and in a short time too - well done!!!! However, you do say that the story is not so good when you take him out, as opposed to your daughter. Who did the 'silence before walkies' training? Was it mainly your daughter? If so, you may need to go through exactly the same steps but with you this time. You are part of the trigger for him to bark so he has to learn that the silence thing applies to walks with you too. Exactly the same principles you have used to get him out of the house quietly can be used to get him to travel in the car. Break it down into steps as Pippa described in your other thread where she was talking about how to build silence prior to a walk. Make every little step contingent on silence. There might be a lot of very little steps involved. He might not be able to go for a trip in the car until you have progressed through a number of steps (car keys out.....approach car......open boot door.....he gets in the cage.....close boot door....you walk around to driver's door.....you open door....you get in.....close your door....start engine.....back car out 1 foot.....another foot.....). I know that sounds like a huge pain, but you have proved that it works with your achievements re. the walking. You can do it! With he barking at everything....I'd be working on a desensitisation technique. That means gradually exposing him to more intense (closer or louder or bigger) examples of the things that get him barking and rewarding for silence. With any 'trigger' there will be a threshold beyond which the dog reacts negatively. Under that threshold the dog is able to be calm, even if they are aware of the trigger. With desensitisation you are trying to make the threshold higher and higher, so, where once it took only a little to produce barking, after working in it it now takes a lot to produce barking. But you are always working just under the threshold, gently pushing the boundaries outwards. Exactly where that threshold is will be different for different things or triggers. A trigger might be someone coming to the door, or people moving in the immediate area. It's a matter of working out what the smallest thing is that Sooty can tolerate without reacting, exposing him to that and rewarding silence and calmness (this will not reduce your treat expenditure... at least in the short term ). Once he's ok with that, up the intensity a little bit. So, with people knocking on the door, the minimal thing he can tolerate might be someone passing the gate, then touching the gate, then opening the gate a crack but walking away.....It's a matter of working through it in little tiny steps... It involves a bit of thought to break everything down into gradually escalating sequence. Our dog, Obi, was rehomed and had some bad behaviours (and still has a few.... ;D), one of which was barking anytime we sat down....to do anything..... So I feel a tiny bit of your pain. Sometimes I still tell Obi that he'd make a nice rug, and I am not entirely joking....
Re: Barking B4 walk sorted, but in car now worse and V BAD sep. anxiety. PLS HELP Oh dear, I have huge sympathy for this. My previous dog was a life long barker....not quite as bad as you describe here, but annoying all the same. I like all of Rachel's suggestions. Another thing you could try is to actually teach him to bark....which sounds counter-productive, but the point being once you teach "speak" you now have a way to teach "Quiet". Caveat: I did try this with my barking addict....it had limited success. He picked up on "speak" very easily : but was a bit deaf to the "quiet". But you might want to give it a try. Our dog is a rescue as well. We've had him for about 5 months now, and I have to say that it's only been in the last month or so that I really feel he has actually settled into understanding that this is his home for good, and I see him being much more open to our training. So you might find that things will improve for you too as a little more time passes.
Re: Barking B4 walk sorted, but in car now worse and V BAD sep. anxiety. PLS HELP Hi there, I have very little to add, except sympathy! In terms of the in-car barking, it might be because everything is exciting and he is getting over-stimulated. Victoria Stilwell cured this in one of her programmes (umm, think they were Great Danes...) by screening the boot so the dogs could not see out. They went quiet. The curtain was opened a tiny bit... they barked. It didn't take long until the curtains could be pulled back and then removed completely, and the dogs stayed quiet. Of course this did take car journeys with no other purpose than dog training, and a passenger to operate curtains safely... If you had a suitable cage for the car, it would be easier to screen it, but you can improvise using the dog guard as an anchor! Hope things go well, Clare
Re: Barking B4 walk sorted, but in car now worse and V BAD sep. anxiety. PLS HELP [quote author=Sooty link=topic=3357.msg36476#msg36476 date=1384900134] When I take him out for a walk, BEDLAM! He will stop barking when I ignore him and sit down, but all the time I'm on my feet, he's charging around bashing into stuff, knocking stuff over, trampling over anything in his way. It takes me AGES to get him out!!! [/quote] Something odd just happened here, and I thought of you. In case it helps. Dog walker came to take Charlie this morning - I'm not usually here, but I'm a bit late leaving today. When I walk Charlie, he is as good as gold getting out of the house. Never had a problem or any messing about. In fact, I always thought Charlie didn't really associate his collar and lead with a walk he appears so disinterested when I pick them up. Dog walker arrives, he whines, jumps, and is an absolute disgrace. Luckily, I selected my dog walker well, as she doesn't even walk towards Charlie while he is messing about, and shuts the kitchen door, opening it a crack and closing it if he starts again. Then stands stock still until he stops. Good girl! I have never seen him like this! Obviously they can react very differently with different people. A big difference is that I take Charlie out of the house on a lead for loads of different reasons - to have a pee, take the wheelie bin out, go to the post box. It's not always a big walk. Wow. Bad Charlie!
Re: Barking B4 walk sorted, but in car now worse and V BAD sep. anxiety. PLS HELP HI everyone Thanks for your suggestions, things have calmed down a bit I'm happy to say. I've found the best way to actually get out of the house without barking is to get the prince of darkness to sit down on his bum while I get ready - staying still and ignoring him just wasn't working - we tried it for weeks! He's still rather vocal at times, like now for instance, we're having a regression moment, he's full of beans this evening and shouting his head off at Emma who's just getting ready to take him out, but we have a much better behaved doggy in general. Still no idea about how to tacklethe jealousy whenever I cuddle or talk to someone, so I can't take him to work with me , but I have taught him to go and find his tennis ball when he forgets it on his walk so the lost ball count has significantly dropped. Car journeys are now, mostly, bark free, and we're working on walking to heel. So I guess we'll keep him, for now... ;-)
Re: Barking B4 walk sorted, but in car now worse and V BAD sep. anxiety. PLS HELP Phew, glad to hear that things are improving. I do think these rescue dogs need some time to truly understand that they are in a place that is their "forever home" . After time passes they relax, understanding that this is now their home, and become much easier to train and live with. All of the training gives them structure that they need, and as they become better behaved, people relax which helps them to relax, etc. A big happy circle if you can get through the initial phases, which can be nightmarish as you and others of us have experienced. The jealousy is quite common among dogs that have been rehomed, I understand, although I haven't seen it here with mine. Not sure of suggestions for that one....maybe someone else has dealt with that, and can give you some practical tips.
Re: Barking B4 walk sorted, but in car now worse and V BAD sep. anxiety. PLS HELP Totally agree with what Lisa said about a re-homed dog. They take a while to settle and develop a sense of security. It sounds like you are making brilliant progress. I'm sure it's tiring at times. But it will continue to get better - overall the trajectory will be in the right direction Great work
Re: Barking B4 walk sorted, but in car now worse and V BAD sep. anxiety. PLS HELP I am in total agreement too, we have a 3 year old rescue Lab x Pointer - Charlie who came to us at 9 months rescued from the pound in Ireland where he was on the PTS list at just 6 months old :'( he was a nightmare and it took him a long time to settle, although he is still a work in progress It sounds to me like you are doing a great job. xx
