When Sam was a puppy , I used to take him to a local field which the farmer allowed dog walkers to use . I wanted him to socialise with other dogs as quickly as possible and so it seemed like a good idea , at the time All went well when he was young but as he hit around the 9 months old mark , I noticed that his recall was losing its edge and that the walks seemed to be one big excuse for a hoolie , often up to 18 other dogs in the field together . I decided that this wasnt right, for either of us and so his walks took on a more structured nature and in other places, not the manic play field and thankfully, I got him back on track pretty quickly . I have been back to this field a couple of times but avoiding the times when there are loads of other dogs around and all seemed well , until this morning .I decided to take them both to the field whereupon, instantly they both turned into lunatics , charging around and initially ignoring me until they had calmed down . I know that it may seem a shame not to allow them to be dogs and play, but they do meet loads of other dogs on different walks, its just that this paricular place seems to bring out the worst in all the dogs who visit so thats that, no more play field for the two of them, meany that I am :
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? I'm with you on this. Structured walks avoid complete lunacy in our house - once that adrenaline surge kicks in I can lose control of both quite easily and they will ignore me with a very distracted and slightly demented look in their eyes, and it takes a while for them to calm down. So yes, i'd be the same and avoid the lunatic field at all costs (much to the disgruntlement of my two wannabe hooligans).
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? We've never been in a free play situation with that many dogs to be honest Kate,purely because we can't . having got used to only ever socializing in small numbers I think I would find it a bit unnerving..... I'm so routined with my walks,I know who we are going to meet and am quite discerning about our playmates(when you are forced to be in the same place everyday and see the same people,you get to know who to avoid usually just ones and twos at a time.I walk regularly with my friend and her dog who doesn't have contact with any other dogs except Dexter and his play is quite rough.....it affects Dexters play,he becomes rougher and it worries me as I don't want Dexter to forget himself and pick up bad habits .....it's quite tricky actually ,I try and limit it to 2 walks a week and make sure Dexter plays with calmer dogs on other days. Maybe like kids,misbehavior is easier to pick up than good behavior.....it's usually more fun isn't it?!
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? Structure – all the time. I thought about this for Charlie a while back, when a trainer told me a big hoolie with other dogs isn't a good idea, and have gradually got more and more structured. He is allowed playtime. We do our training on a big field, and when another dog appears (very often). He has to complete his exercise and wait for me to say “go play”. (He isn't always allowed to go play. Sometimes he has to walk away.) Then he must come back when called, which he does apart from if there are more than 5 or so dogs (which I now try to avoid). He knows which dogs he wants to play with, and for some dogs who play too rough for him he won't go play at all. For others has a quick sniff and then comes back to me. Others, he is happy to go play with. The more critical thing for me is not allowing him to “hunt” (he probably isn’t really hunting, but it looks like it to me in a sort of pet dog baby way). He’ll start following a scent, back and forth, side to side, and gets faster and faster, and he runs further and further away. Once he is far away, he will come back, but sort of “in a minute” kind of way. This is banned. He must stay within 20m now, and we play games to keep his attention on us. Or recall him back at 20m, but we prefer that his attention just stays on us (as recalling him away from something all the time is going to get boring for him). If we meet other dogs off lead as we're walking, in theory he still has to sit, and wait for a "go play" - but it depends whether I have his attention or the particular circumstances - sometimes he has run up before I can react. Either way, he can say hello, but we move on quickly. He meets masses of strange dogs - more than 15 or 20 a week. I reckon this is more than enough, and he doesn't need big play sessions all the time.
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? What amazed and concerned me was how quickly the pair of them remembered where they were this morning and behaved apropriately , almost as though they thought that manic behaviour was expected of them : Our normal beach or Golitha walks are full of structure, oportunities to retrieve for Sam and ball play for Millie ,recall work , sit/stay etc . they encounter other dogs on a regular basis but never once have I had the naughtiness that I did this morning , never to be repeated , ever
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? Mmm yes i agree too with structure too...I've actually stopped taking my two to play in the big park near my home, we just scuttle through it and off up into the hills for our walks, where they will meet a few dogs but not the herds that romp about in the park...the park is packed with dogs at certain times, and even though you try your best to control yours, other folk don't and things can get quite chaotic. Cuillin, despite being a ninny 90% of her life, can get really OTT when she is playing in a group, the rough play escalates and she sometimes loses the plot a bit and I'm the one finding it difficult to control my dog!! Brodick really doesn't like this type of play unless its with dogs he knows, he was chased by a couple of dogs recently who were just playing but they got a bit overly focused on B as he was really running away, and he got a real fright, charged back to me when he finally got away, tail under, not a happy boy. With Brodick's hunting proclivities I try to do a lot of structure on our walks too, balls, dummies, bits and bobs of training. Struggling with the pheasant population just now, he loves to scent and flush, and I have no idea where they are going to be as they move around so much in the hills, but trying to put structure into this as well if it happens...he is recalled from flushing, and I'm sitting him up next to me before he is given his reward of scenting again for stopping and coming back to me...
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? I could have written exactly the same post. We have a local field where about an hour before sunset all the local dogs (mostly labs and golden retrievers) go completely crazy chasing each other around while the owners stand in the middle talking about how they can't train their dogs to come back when called... I took Axl there when he was a puppy and he learnt to socialise, which was great. I trained him to recall using Pippa's book then when I blew the whistle on the field, not only did Axl come back but so did eleven other dogs! The other owners were amazed so immediately bought whistles. None of them actually did any training and couldn't understand why it didn't work for them... Axl is 8 months old now and I rarely go to the field as I don't see the point of standing in the same spot freezing to death while my dog learns a host of bad habits. We go to the local golf course now and he spends his time searching for lost golf balls and hedgehogs. His recall is excellent and we both get some exercise!
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? This is really good If only more dog owners could be persuaded to behave like this, there would be far fewer 'naughty' dogs and far fewer dogs in rescue centres. Most Labradors are highly social and don't need to play with (and annoy) every dog they meet, or to hunt the length and breadth of the county every time they go for a walk. On the other hand most do desperately need to practice leaving other dogs alone, and paying attention to their owners
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? I do think that this manic behaviour can be picked up from other dogs . For example , yesterday I took the dogs to the beach , its a huge beach where there are many dogs and owners but because most of the dogs are pretty well behaved , I never ever have a problem . Yesterday they were both just compltely focussed on me and on retrieving balls , ignored all the other dogs completely which is wonderful , tiring body and mind and yet the very minute they arrived at the play field from hell , they both instantly regressed , lesson learned , we will stick with the structure
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? I think you are absolutely right, Kate. Back in September, at gundog lesson #2, the trainer said "3 out of control dogs, and Charlie, will soon add up to 4 out of control dogs". At the time, I didn't quite "buy" this and was doubtful about it: http://www.thelabradorsite.com/forums/index.php/topic,2596.msg26134.html#msg26134 I do buy it now though. It's quite, quite, true.
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? Well the only time Simba gets to play with other dogs is at the dog park, a couple times a week. And the most we've met there is about 5-6, but usually it's 1-3 dogs, so it's all good. Can't imagine 18 dogs racing around??? Whoo boy, I can see how that could get out of control pretty quick. We'll see how it goes here in the summer - there will be more dogs at the park then, for sure. Only us die-hards out there these days.
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? We have a area like this too. Its near the kids park. As soon as go near it Amy will go crazy! We hardly see any dogs in our walks apart from this bit of grass.
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? Our experience is a little bit different. Obi often spends time in large groups of dogs (12-25 dogs) at his daycare and his playgroup. The dogs are managed by staff and they also get to know each other. Under these conditions there isn't any out of control behaviour, or else it is stopped. There is a lot of playing, games with toys, swim time, wandering about and even bouts of sleeping. I'm not sure if it his extensive experience in large groups but Obi is very chilled at the dog park (where there are many dogs that he doesn't know) and also with other dogs in the free-run area at our dog club. He doesn't actually play much at all and mostly just mooches about. I would like him to play more vigorously, actually!!! When we first started going to the dog park he got recalled from play every few minutes and now he just does it himself - he frequently checks in with us (for a treat). So, dogs in large groups aren't necessarily an unmitigated disaster, as long as your dog is well used to it, isn't too excitable, has a good recall and the attendant humans step in when needed (not always the case of course!!). We are very strict about on-lead interactions though - we don't allow any. Obi has to sit and wait or heel if other dogs go by on lead.
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? I think it's key that you are able to recall Obi back, and so he is still listening to you. I can manage this with Charlie but only up to a certain number of dogs. More than 5 and Charlie gets so excited he forgets about me altogether - so I avoid high numbers. One or two pretty much ok, 3 usually ok, 4 pushing it. Unless it's a cocker spaniel puppy. Then Charlie goes deaf immediately. Although I did notice when we were visiting daycare places, I was able to call Charlie out of the pack of dogs - I think this is because he'd nearly had enough after 15 - 20 mins. So if he were allowed, maybe it would be less of a big deal for him. :-\ Charlie gets to play sometimes (not now he is on rest obviously) but I try to keep it in a situation where I can recall him often and let him go again. The better he gets, the more comfortable I'll be I guess. That said, I think this week of Charlie never leaving my side has been good for him - I think he is much more focused on me, alternatively, he has been clicker trained half to death! I'm going to adopt your policy of no on-lead interaction. I discourage him, but haven't been absolute about it. I should start being so. Trouble is, off lead dogs coming up make it difficult. I need to work on him ignoring them. [quote author=Oberon link=topic=3452.msg39049#msg39049 date=1386043807] When we first started going to the dog park he got recalled from play every few minutes and now he just does it himself - he frequently checks in with us (for a treat). We are very strict about on-lead interactions though - we don't allow any. Obi has to sit and wait or heel if other dogs go by on lead. [/quote]
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? Our walks are all on lead walks as it wouldn't be safe for them to be loose. Cars go so fast on narrow country lanes! : It's unfortunate because it hasn't helped with socialising with other dogs and helping get over their nerves. However they do socialise with the other dogs in the family about once a week and I'm lucky to have the space to train and let them run at home. I do think walks should be structured and I get fed up of meeting people with loose dogs with absolutely no control. I know dogs will be dogs and sometimes they won't listen but these people don't even make an attempt to get control or only half hearted. My old lab if he got the chance would run to meet people coming down our lane. Obviously they must be coming to play. : I'd race after him apologising profusely. I suppose there's something to be said for these two not liking strangers they keep away. Jen
Re: Structured walks or complete lunacy ? [quote author=JulieT link=topic=3452.msg39051#msg39051 date=1386054310] Trouble is, off lead dogs coming up make it difficult. I need to work on him ignoring them. [/quote] Bain of my life this....what do people think you are doing when you have your dog in sit trying to keep him looking at you .....and extendable leads....don't get me started
