Hi, I am new to this site and hope someone out there can help us. My name is Helen and I have the loveliest rescue dog Charlie who is a Labrador x Pointer (GSP we think). We rescued him at 9 months old and he is now 21 months old and we cannot teach him recall. We have tried all suggested methods like long line, voice, silent whistle and have used all treats e.g. cooked chicken, turkey, sausage, cheese and so the list goes on. We have used tennis balls, squeeky toys, frizzbies all toys known to dog kind but nothing works for a sustained time. He becomes interested in these things but only for a short time. We can't let him off lead now as he runs around the countryside for anything for upto 30 minutes which is just too stressful. He always returns to us but this is not how we want our walks to be. We have used Pippas run and about turn which works but again when he gets a scent he's off and becomes a dot on the horizon. We are now feeling very stressed about this as we have another dog Hattie who is 5 years old and has 99% recall. We just don't know what to do. Otherwise Charlie is the most fantastic boy, he adores all of us which consists of 4 children, he is obedient, and has been taught, sit, down, wait, he waits at a distance and comes when called, he waits for his food. We are desperate to teach him recall and he too can enjoy off lead walks in the countryside where we live. Thanks Helen & Charlie
Re: Recall Hi Helen and welcome . Can I suggest you get the book written by Pippa ( site editor ) called Total Recall , I`m sure it will help you to go back to basics and start over again following Pippas advice in the book . It is so frustrating I know , but you will get there with some help .
Re: Recall Thank you for the book information will have a look on Amazon. We feel like so much time has gone by and that we will never be able to teach him recall. Is it possible that you just can't teach some dogs, especially one with his background? We so want him to have a happy life with lots of freedom. Totally off track how do I change my username on this site, as I put Charlie's instead of mine? Thanks again. Helen
Re: Recall Hi Helen I think we have spoken before in the comments section of the website. Welcome to the forum, this is an easier way to chat! Recall training a rescue dog can be a long process, as you have discovered. But no matter what the dog's background or temperament, it is likely that every dog has the ability to pass through each of the stages in recall training. I cannot promise you that Charlie is 'recall trainable' but it is most unlikely that he is not. So do not despair! However, the longer the dog has been absconding for, the longer you should expect the retraining process to take. By far the longest and most complicated part of the training process is proofing, the bit where you teach your dog to recall under distraction. But for proofing to work, it needs to be carried out systematically. If rewards are not working, you need to look at how you are applying them. Rewards have to be used systematically, starting with a continuous schedule of reinforcement (rewarding every single success) and moving to random variable rewards in stages. When training with rewards you also have to prevent the dog rewarding himself. All this is not necessarily an intuitive process and you need to read up on positive reinforcement training to get this right. It is also explained in my book if you decide to get that. Aversives are hard to use with recall because they are difficult to apply at a distance and because they affect the dog's desire to get next to you. So it is essential you master the correct technique for delivering rewards. You can do this. And so can Charlie! But you need to take it one step at a time, starting with a new recall signal that you commit to never using except as part of a structured recall training programme. Pippa
Re: Recall Hello Helen, I am new to this forum as well and have just seen your post. I agree with Kate that Pippa's book will help; there is a training section called the absconder, which should help with Charlie, along with other good advice about interacting with your dog on the walk. It is great that you have taken on a rescue dog and often that is not easy, but it sounds as if he now has a loving home, but he could take longer due to his past experiences. I have found that one of the best skills I have utilised is that of scent activities. My dogs are Hungarian Vizsla, so like a GSP (which you believe yours is crossed with), they have a very strong prey drive instinct. Have you tried scent work on your walks? I can spend a good half hour or more with them searching for small treats, balls dummies etc. in woods and overgrown fields; they absolutely love it and it provides mental as well as physical exercise. It is also a good diversion tactic if I spot trouble ahead as I get their attention quickly and send them to 'find it'.
Re: Recall Hi Helen, I have the same kind of problem with my lab Lilly who 2yr old past in May (although maybe not quite so bad as Charlie ) Chasing and finding on walks hasn't particularly helped for me, although Lilly does seem quite "prey-driven". Lately I have been aware that she is good at spotting moving things, but not good at finding immobile objects, so don't think that scent activities would necessarily help us - not sure. I the garden she will chase a tennis ball, but if it sneaks behind a plant pot or falls into our (overgrown) border she seems to give up. I have read somewhere that certain colours are better than others. Through trial and error, Lilly SEEMS to like yellow, and this is from her hydrotherapy swims where her favourite chasing toy is an empty Jif lemon of all things! Any thoughts on what might help here? Don't want to hi-jack your thread but might be relevant to Charlie too. Jacqui
Re: Recall Hello Jacqui & Helen, We had a good dog trainer for our first dog and she showed us the basics for teaching scent work and we took it on from there. Once learnt it helps as they can find their own lost tennis balls. We started with one person holding the dog and the second person shows the dog the treat or object, letting the dog sniff it so he knows what he is looking for. Then place the treat about 5m away whilst the dog is looking and then release the dog to get the treat. As they get used to this you can start to leave trails and progress to dropping treats whilst walking and send the dog back to look for them. Help him first of all and when he understands introduce the command. I believe labs should be good at this as they use scent to retrieve but each character is different.
Re: Recall Hi Helen, welcome from me too. It's so frustrating when you know they can but won't! But don't despair. As Pippa said go back to the start and try again, annoying I know but it does work. Maia was Labrador number two now number one but when she was training she flatly refused to go out without her sister, she would sit down and not move so I ended up taking both of them (Juno was three years older) and Juno taught her far more than I did. But later on when Juno got injured and couldn't come out with us I found I had a problem, Maia hadn't really learnt at all, she just copied Juno, not good for a three and a bit year old. So we started again, I had treats in my pocket at all times (do make sure you empty your pockets before going in the washing ) and started in the house where I could control external influences, graduated to the garden and then to a safe field, nine years ago I didn't know about long leads, wish I had it would have made life simpler. It took about six months before she was about 70% reliable but I made sure when we went out to be hyper alert to any distraction and to call her in before she wandered off. Today I think she's about 95% reliable and can still go "conveniently deaf". Persevere an you will get him to come back to you, virtually every time. Kerryn
Re: Recall Thank you so much all of you for your kind replies. When we got Charlie interested in tennis balls he absolutely loved them, we would spend about 15 minutes in a paddock before our walk just throwing them and telling him "get the ball" which he did with great excitement and brought them back to us and was treated every time, but now he won't as he just picks it up and drops it and has no interest. Should we do the scent work on a long line dropping the treats and balls etc.? The only worry about this would be he becomes so wired and in the zone that he can go 0-60 in 3 seconds and that long line very quickly becomes a very short line! He never walks and always either canters or runs. We are complete novices with such a breed of dog and feel a little lost as to how to help him but our desire is there as we all adore and love him, so please stay with me please! I am also seriously thinking about taking him to Agility Classes, does anyone know if this could help build his desire to stay close? He doesn't like to be away from me in particular and is always by my side (except when on a walk!) so I thought it could only help. Pippa, yes we did chat on your website so you do know what we have been through and I will buy your book - thank you so much for answering so quickly. We feel like we have failed Charlie and this has dented our confidence. Onwards and upwards to make the wonderful dog we know he can be. Thank you again all of you, watch this space!
Re: Recall Helen, I do empathise. My dogs have a keen interest in rabbits and squirrels so I too am working on that. Likewise they run and dash about and reach a phenominal speed in no time! We learnt to scent train at our local playing fields but this time of year is not great as squirrels are working overtime hoarding so choose your location carefully! I know of a few fields local to me that are quite overgrown, have public footpaths and no livestock, and as the fields have no trees the squirrels seem to stick to the adjacent woods. Do a reccie of places near you and start with those that offer the least distractions to train in, hard I know. You could keep Charlie on his line but let it trail on the ground and if he goes to bolt you can stand on it. I have not read the section in the book on training lines so you can follow that advice. I was taught to stand on the line, give a stern "no" and then to call him "this way"., if he does not responds to the verbal command pick up the line and give a gentle tug. A useful tip I was given by my trainer was to tie a series of knots in the line so you can aim to stand on (or preferably just above one of these to get a grip). Be careful , there is a knack in not getting pulled over or slipping on the line. I had a few embarrassing incidents :-[ Glad to hear you are getting the book. I have been reading it and have started on the exercises today. My two year old is really good on the whole and a very responsive dog but I need to work on his proofing. I want to ibecome a better teacher for our pup. I found chapter 18 particular enlightening regarding chase instincts; there is some very good advice here that has given me inspiration. I would love to take my dogs to a Gudog trainer but there aren't any local to me, so I am seriously considering travelling to one but frquency of visits will be less as time is lost travelling. My local trainer is excellent but is not a Gudog trainer; she is very accomplished in obedience and helped us immensely in the early days with our first dog.
Re: Recall Hi Sharon, thank you for your thoughts. I took Charlie to dog classes for 3 months when we first got him but he disrupted the class and I was too embarrassed to go back so I haven't. Do you think it might be useful to start again now he is older or should I wait? Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? Thank you so much. Helen
Re: Recall Pippa, you suggested a new recall signal, do you mean a totally new word? If so this might be difficult as we use "come" with our other dog also. Have ordered your book and I can't wait for it to arrive! Thanks Helen
Re: Recall You could buy a gundog whistle, they come with different numbers so you always replace with the same number if you lose it. You could train the recall with the whistle which is unemotional and will be completely new to him. I recall my dogs to their dinners with the whistle to start with, however, I recommend you start afresh with Pippa's book. Perhaps Charlie is bored with the tennis ball as you gave him too many retrieves before you went out, use them sparingly when out to get his interest again and then you can make them gradually more difficult by hiding the ball in long grass or cover. My 8 month old pup is very good with the recall (so far) but my 6 year old ignores me! I have Pippa's book and once I find time to read it properly I am going to start from the very beginning. Stacia
Re: Recall Hi Stacia, Charlie was doing really well on the whistle you suggested but like everything else he now doesn't respond. Think it must be us not him. Have ordered Pippas book and will just have to start from scratch, it's going to be the only way. Thanks Helen
